Hog and DIR gear configurations not welcome :-(

[TSandM]

You know, I think the Rescue class was the best mainstream diving class I took. (Unless, of course, you count the fact that my OW class gave me access to being underwater! ). But only a small part of the class was learning to get someone out of their gear. A lot of it was learning to THINK about diving situations, and about rescue situations, and how to be effective and not create a second victim. We learned how to look around and identify the resources available to us, and how to use them wisely. None of that is gear-dependent at all.

There was a comment above that "All students in a Rescue class should be in the same equipment". I would offer that that is a convenience for the INSTRUCTOR, and no benefit to the students at all -- in fact, the reverse.

I vividly remember doing a dive when I was relatively new, with a fellow whose inflator, instead of having buttons, had colored, plastic PLATES for activating the functions. I found it baffling (I was trying to help him with his buoyancy) and I would have been very ineffective had I needed to rescue him. There are a lot of gear configurations out there, and banishing all but one of them from a Rescue class is, to me, extremely shortsighted on the part of the teacher.

And, BTW, I did Rescue AFTER I did GUE Fundamentals. They are entirely different classes, with completely different foci and goals. They are complementary, not mutually exclusive.

And I want to be recognized for the intense personal discipline involved in not picking up the gauntlet thrown by the statement that a Hog rig isn't for basic recreational diving

 

[decompression]

I am going to go against the flow here.

Hog or DIR rigs have no place in a recreational rescue class. They are designed for specific types of diving, outside the sphere of 'lowest common denominator rec diving'. In my personal oppinion, they are part of the natural progression of a diver, and perhaps should come after rescue class. In many ways I like the PADI system where OW teaches you how to dive, AOW opens your eyes to the types of dive out there, and when you are comfortable in the water go on to rescue, that introduces skills for helping others. Then (to my mind) comes the time to go further, and investigate DIR or Hog rigs, and more technical diving, and to get the relevant training. I would suggest that if the OP has been trained correctly in DIR or hog diving then they should already have the necessary skills that they have no need for a rec. rescue class.

The recreational rescue class is the most fun of the classes that PADI do. It is such fun because there is so much practical work to do. However, this is where having somebody in DIR or hog rig makes things more difficult. If there is only one student with this type of rig, they will have to be paired with a rec rig wearer for many activities, which is not particularly good for the rec student, nor the DIR/hog student. It doubles the instructor workload in many of the exercises as a second demonstration has to be made for everything, explaining the different ways of doing things. Simple things like removing the bcd at the surface are different, and over the period of the class the simple explication of the different skills can seriously increase the time taken to do everything. Now, two DIR/ hog divers together, or even a class full of them would be fine.

Now, I would also suggest that if the OP was not trained in DIR or Hog diving, then simply adopting the kit, and continuing the rec training is not getting the best out of the kit, and should abandon rec training and go to somebody like GUE. Getting training adapted to the gear and style of diving would seem like a good idea, no?

I wonder how UTD has managed to train Open water classes with DIR and no one let them know they should wait until their students are more advanced? There is something to be said about learning sound, proven principals from the very beginning instead of trying to overcome bad practices.

 

[GROBIOG]

I may have missed something here but, the argument(in this case, teaching enviroment) about "traditional" gear and HOG configuration on a rescue scenario, simplifies to buckles vs continuos harness, where resealing all buckles IS easier than sliding harness over shoulders and arms(I know, I know, cut the damn thing), so instructors may simply be looking for a way of not complicating their own lives, teaching an easy class, sort of cutting corners, we see a lot of that, don't we?
I have taught rescue class on at least 2-4 ft seas and one "victim" WAS on HOG rig, the rescuer definitely had his work cut out for him, removing gear on unconscious diver at the surface was fun. Of course, real rescue... :support: :ar15: :nuke:,
well, you get the point...cut the harness.


For the ones that still think only a "traditional" set up is allowed on rescue class, think about the student who shows up with this bcd...

 

[GROBIOG]

...

There was a comment above that "All students in a Rescue class should be in the same equipment". I would offer that that is a convenience for the INSTRUCTOR, and no benefit to the students at all -- in fact, the reverse.

I vividly remember doing a dive when I was relatively new, with a fellow whose inflator, instead of having buttons, had colored, plastic PLATES for activating the functions. I found it baffling (I was trying to help him with his buoyancy) and I would have been very ineffective had I needed to rescue him. There are a lot of gear configurations out there, and banishing all but one of them from a Rescue class is, to me, extremely shortsighted on the part of the teacher...

Yep, you nailed it.

 

[Thalassamania]

Part of the problem solving and task loading should be to have as many "victims" as possible in as many diverse rigs as possible. If student's can't handle the issue of not having a shoulder release, which is what it really comes down to, are they ready for a "rescue course?"

 

[boulderjohn]

Part of the problem solving and task loading should be to have as many "victims" as possible in as many diverse rigs as possible. If student's can't handle the issue of not having a shoulder release, which is what it really comes down to, are they ready for a "rescue course?"

Ironically, this essay suggests that Hogarthian divers will have trouble knowing what to do if they encounter distressed divers who are not rigged out exactly as they are.

 

[txapacheguy]

I did the rescue class in a backplate/wing and drysuit, although I had not quite switched over to the long hose yet. The instructor did not personally prefer my configuration, but it presented a good opportunity for others in the class to see a different way of doing things and gave everyone a little practice in dealing with someone not dressed like them.

Fast forward about six months later, and I was in doubles and long hose while diving with a shop who was doing the rescue class and needed a "victim". They had me be the "unresponsive diver" at depth, and had the student bring me to the surface and such. It was a good experience for him as well. If I had not been there in such a configuration, he would have not had the opportunity to familiarize himself with any gear other than a single tank and jacket bcd.

It is truly disappointing that an instructor who is training fire department divers is so narrow minded towards different equipment configurations.

 

[Druid]

As far as I'm aware, the only training organisation that specifically disallows hog loop/primary donate on their courses is BSAC.

 

[Thalassamania]

Ironically, this essay suggests that Hogarthian divers will have trouble knowing what to do if they encounter distressed divers who are not rigged out exactly as they are.

Don't know about that, I'd trust Dan Volker to figure it out, but then he (they) can't seem to figure out how to mount a snorkel and not have it get in their way.

 

[gcarter]

i think for the purpose of a rescue class its always better for everyone to have similar kit.

afterwards you can dive how you want-as long as you are your buddy are happy that you each understand how to react in the case of a problem.

I am reading along and shaking my head, not to pick on you, this just happens to be the one post of this type too many:

I really don't get this mindset. In a rescue class, how is it better to have everyone in similar kit? How does that prepare anyone for RL? In RL you will encounter a wide variety of different kit. If you truly want rescue training instead of just a card, exposure to a wider variety of configurations can only help.

Also, the idea that someone shouldn't be diving DIR/Hog style kit without DIR training is quite frankly stupid. A BP/W is just another BCD folks. Configured differently, but does the same job. I have seen people do PADI OW in BP/W.

This is such an incredibly stupid debate.