History of 18m depth limit?

[Efka76]

i am sorry I upset you. I called it satire not because I was laughing, but because I couldn't believe someone would write so many wrong things in one post.

Please tell me what wrong things I wrote. I wrote that PADI OW limit is 18 m and if you exceed it there might be issues with insurance, however you laughed from my post and corrected me that "The OW card is a certification to 130 ft". It seems that even now you still do not understand a difference between recreational diving limit and PADI OW certification / training limit. Regarding insurance: have you ever read DAN or DIveAssure rules? I doubt that. Also, by looking at your posts it seems that these rules would be to complex for you to understand. This is my last post in this thread as I do not want to waste my energy by arguing with delusional person who is not capable to understand even trivial matters. Have a good day and please read PADI books as you need to refresh your knowledge.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . .
There used to be a question on the PADI OW Final Exam that went something like this: "What is the depth limit for a recreational scuba diver?" The possible answers were 40 ft, 60 ft, 100 ft, 130 ft. Almost everybody got it wrong, answering "60 ft." The correct answer was "130 ft." I wish I could find a copy of that old exam but I don't seem to have it anymore. . . .

It's no surprise to me that "almost everybody got it wrong." PADI's wording is terribly ambiguous. If it takes a forum full of experienced divers and instructors to hash this out, perhaps PADI could improve their materials. My suspicion is that they intentionally leave it ill-defined.

 

[Lorenzoid]

Please tell me what wrong things I wrote. I wrote that PADI OW limit is 18 m and if you exceed it there might be issues with insurance, however you laughed from my post and corrected me that "The OW card is a certification to 130 ft". It seems that even now you still do not understand a difference between recreational diving limit and PADI OW certification / training limit. Regarding insurance: have you ever read DAN or DIveAssure rules? . . .

Efka, from what I read in my DAN policy, I believe it says I would be covered so long as my dive is "recreational." It also says "regardless of the depth," though I would interpret "recreational" as implicitly imposing a 130 foot limit.

COVERED DIVE or COVERED DIVING ACTIVITY means a recreational
dive or diving while a scuba instructor, divemaster, underwater
photographer, or while performing research under the auspices
and following the diving safety guidelines of the American Academy
of Underwater Scientists (AAUS), Canadian Academy of Underwater
Scientists (CAUS) or a group whose written diving research protocol
meets or exceeds those of the AAUS or CAUS. A dive begins upon
entry into the water and ends upon exit from the water. A Covered
Dive must begin while insurance is in force.
COVERED DIVING ACCIDENT means an Accident, DCI, or any Injury
that results from a Covered Dive, regardless of the depth.

 

[rsingler]

Please tell me what wrong things I wrote. I wrote that PADI OW limit is 18 m

Please define what YOU mean by "limit".
As described above in the Instructor Manual, the instructor is limited to 60 feet on training dives for OW certification. The student receives an open water certification. And as you have noted, the OW limit is 130 feet. Thus, the student is certified to 130 feet, whether or not he is foolish to go that deep without additional training. There may indeed be insurance issues, but that is a separate matter.
As there are only informal scuba police, the whole issue is rather silly, don't you think?

 

[tursiops]

Please tell me what wrong things I wrote. I wrote that PADI OW limit is 18 m and if you exceed it there might be issues with insurance, however you laughed from my post and corrected me that "The OW card is a certification to 130 ft". It seems that even now you still do not understand a difference between recreational diving limit and PADI OW certification / training limit. Regarding insurance: have you ever read DAN or DIveAssure rules? I doubt that. Also, by looking at your posts it seems that these rules would be to complex for you to understand. This is my last post in this thread as I do not want to waste my energy by arguing with delusional person who is not capable to understand even trivial matters. Have a good day and please read PADI books as you need to refresh your knowledge.

ignore

 

[rsingler]

As to the OP, the best discussion I have seen regarding the history of the recreational limit is here:
Why is 130 Feet the Depth Limit for Recreational Scuba Diving?
That PADI then further limited depths to 60 feet for training at certain levels is not surprising. But as this thread has demonstrated perfectly, there's still lots of confusion regarding limits and training.

 

[tursiops]

My suspicion is that they intentionally leave it ill-defined.

Probably right. As are the ascent-rate recommendations....

 

[Bob DBF]

From WRSTC standards for OW diver:
"Open water certification qualifies a certified diver to procure air, equipment, and other services and engage in recreational open water diving without supervision. It is the intent of this standard that certified open water divers shall have received training in the fundamentals of
recreational diving from an instructor (see definition). A certified open water diver is qualified to apply the knowledge and skills outlined in this standard to plan, conduct, and log open-water, no-required decompression dives when properly equipped, and accompanied by another certified diver. "

The standards give limits to training depth but not to a certified diver. The training is for NDL buddy diving, NDL diving can be done to 190' although the agreed recreational limit has been 130' for many decades.

I believe the 60' limit is used to give a new diver a limit so that larger, longer, discussion of the whys and how's of extending ones limits can be skipped. Teaching good judgement takes time, and most OW training is about getting a diver trained quickly. The dive ops that require a diver to use the training limit is more about their clientele and insurance carrier.


Bob

 

[Storker]

The dive ops that require a diver to use the training limit is more about their clientele and insurance carrier.

My travel medical insurance has a pretty simple rule: if a dive was planned to no more than 40m (130') and any venture beyond 40m was caused by external circumstances during the incident, I'm covered. No matter my cert.

Of course, any op is free to require certification above OW for their clients to go below 18m (60'). Their op, their rules. And given some of the muppetry I've seen while diving abroad, I can kinda, sorta understand that position. Which is one of the reasons I've taken certs beyond my OWD (currently working on my CMAS 3*. "mate, I've got a dive leader cert. Is it OK for you to let me do my thing without holding my hand all the time?")

 

[JamesBon92007]

Please define what YOU mean by "limit".
As described above in the Instructor Manual, the instructor is limited to 60 feet on training dives for OW certification. The student receives an open water certification. And as you have noted, the OW limit is 130 feet. Thus, the student is certified to 130 feet, whether or not he is foolish to go that deep without additional training. There may indeed be insurance issues, but that is a separate matter.
As there are only informal scuba police, the whole issue is rather silly, don't you think?

It looks like Efka76 probably left the room, but when my girlfriend took her OW course the instructor seemed to think he was required to take her to at least 60 feet, which he did. Actually, I think she said they went to 62 feet. Not long after she received her PADI OW card we were on a dive boat at Cozumel and the DM said "the deepest part of the dive will be 90 feet." She was concerned because she thought she was only certified to 60 feet. I asked about it here plus I looked it up in her PADI book and it was very clear that she was NOT limited to 60 feet, but merely that was the suggested "starting point" and as she progressed and gained more experience, she was, to put it simply, certified to whatever depth she had attained (within recreational limits, of course). That would be a little over 80 feet as of right now. Maybe things are different in Mexico than in other parts of the world, but so far nobody has told her she can't do a dive because she is only OW certified. I can't find her book right now in order to quote it exactly, but I'm certain that she is not, according to PADI, limited to 60 feet. I suspect that this misconception influences many divers to immediately take the AOW course so that they are no longer limited to 60 feet.

I'm sure PADI wouldn't intentionally mislead people so they would feel compelled to take an additional course just to make more money (I believe "satire" was mentioned earlier in this thread).