History of 18m depth limit?

[tursiops]

I didn't think I was. I was generalizing based upon the other rules that I'd encountered, plus what kelemvor said.

You are right; some others have mentioned operators in Hawaii who wanted to see beyond-OW credentials. But no one before has generalized that to an entire state. That Key Largo operators want AOW to go on the deep wrecks there does not taint the entire state of Florida.

 

[JamesBon92007]

You are right; some others have mentioned operators in Hawaii who wanted to see beyond-OW credentials. But no one before has generalized that to an entire state. That Key Largo operators want AOW to go on the deep wrecks there does not taint the entire state of Florida.

I've read that some dive ops here in California also require AOW for some dive trips but as far as I know we aren't required to have a flag for shore diving or a BC, or a dive buddy. There are some localities that have their own rules and restrictions but those are not necessarily statewide. I didn't mean to offend you or the beautiful state of Hawai'i and I very much enjoy diving there.

 

[Storker]

They used to have a president

Don't they still?

OK, OK, I'll show myself out.

 

[dmaziuk]

Don't they still?

I wouldn't know: we cut the cable a while back, all I get on the idiot box now is zombies and creepers and Tanoan drug runners. I hear we don't have a government now, at all, but from just looking around all appears to be Situation Normal(tm).

 

[tursiops]

I've read that some dive ops here in California also require AOW for some dive trips but as far as I know we aren't required to have a flag for shore diving or a BC, or a dive buddy. There are some localities that have their own rules and restrictions but those are not necessarily statewide. I didn't mean to offend you or the beautiful state of Hawai'i and I very much enjoy diving there.

Interesting website.
Dive Flag Law
Some 80% of the states require a dive flag...but not including California.

 

[kelemvor]

I wouldn't know: we cut the cable a while back, all I get on the idiot box now is zombies and creepers and Tanoan drug runners. I hear we don't have a government now, at all, but from just looking around all appears to be Situation Normal(tm).

Something about the various branches of govmint not agreeing. Results in a SCARY government shutdown that we have every few years. I think in practical terms that means that you can't go to national parks during the "event" or "incident" or whatever. Other than that it's food for the media.

 

[tursiops]

I think in practical terms that means that you can't go to national parks during the "event" or "incident" or whatever. Other than that it's food for the media.

Unless you happen to be one of the people not working -- either a Fed or a contractor -- and not being paid, or worse being forced to work without being paid. These are practical terms too...especially for anyone facing mortgage payments, food bills, car payments, rent, etc....

 

[boulderjohn]

Training agencies like PADI have the ability to set rules that govern what happens during training dives. That is it. They have no authority to set rules outside of training. They can only recommend what divers do when they go out on their own. Even the 130 foot limit is only a recommendation. If you want to go to 150, there is nothing an agency can do to stop you.

There are organizations that can limit your diving, and those organizations frequently pretend they are required to set those limits by the training agencies. It is a passing of the buck of blame. For example, when I was on a Liveaboard in Australia, we were given two different rules that very much limited our dives, and we were told they had no choice but to implement those rules because they were dictated by PADI. After those rules were announced, I took the diving director aside (not wanting to make a scene) and called BS on it. In private, he admitted there were no such PADI rules and it was only company policy.

• Some governments set limits. For example, in Cozumel's marine park, you must follow a professional guide. The dive flag laws mentioned above are another example.
• Many dive operators set limits. It is now getting more and more common for dive operators to require AOW for deeper dives. If you want to dive with that operator, you must follow that rule.
• Some insurance companies set limits. For example, my wife and I are planning a major and very expensive trip in the coming year, and we looked into travel insurance. In one policy we looked at, we would not be covered if a problem was caused by a dive in excess of 130 feet. Since I regularly exceed that depth, I did not choose that plan. I instead chose the DAN travel insurance plan, which has no such limits.

Finally, a little note about the laws of logic. If you believe something exists, and others believe it does not exist, the burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate its existence. You cannot claim that unicorns exist and demand that others prove they do not. If you believe DAN has a rule limiting OW divers to 60 feet, then the burden is on you to show that rule.

 

[Lorenzoid]

. . . If you believe DAN has a rule limiting OW divers to 60 feet, then the burden is on you to show that rule.

For those who haven't been following every post, see Post #53.

 

[kelemvor]

Training agencies like PADI have the ability to set rules that govern what happens during training dives. That is it. They have no authority to set rules outside of training. They can only recommend what divers do when they go out on their own. Even the 130 foot limit is only a recommendation. If you want to go to 150, there is nothing an agency can do to stop you.

There are organizations that can limit your diving, and those organizations frequently pretend they are required to set those limits by the training agencies. It is a passing of the buck of blame. For example, when I was on a Liveaboard in Australia, we were given two different rules that very much limited our dives, and we were told they had no choice but to implement those rules because they were dictated by PADI. After those rules were announced, I took the diving director aside (not wanting to make a scene) and called BS on it. In private, he admitted there were no such PADI rules and it was only company policy.

• Some governments set limits. For example, in Cozumel's marine park, you must follow a professional guide. The dive flag laws mentioned above are another example.
• Many dive operators set limits. It is now getting more and more common for dive operators to require AOW for deeper dives. If you want to dive with that operator, you must follow that rule.
• Some insurance companies set limits. For example, my wife and I are planning a major and very expensive trip in the coming year, and we looked into travel insurance. In one policy we looked at, we would not be covered if a problem was caused by a dive in excess of 130 feet. Since I regularly exceed that depth, I did not choose that plan. I instead chose the DAN travel insurance plan, which has no such limits.

Finally, a little note about the laws of logic. If you believe something exists, and others believe it does not exist, the burden of proof lies with you to demonstrate its existence. You cannot claim that unicorns exist and demand that others prove they do not. If you believe DAN has a rule limiting OW divers to 60 feet, then the burden is on you to show that rule.

Well stated, as always.

I do still think that training materials should better elaborate on that detail. It's obviously often misunderstood. Clearly confusion exists for students certified by many different agencies. Including some of your bullet points verbatim would go a long way...