History of 18m depth limit?

[Bob DBF]

My travel medical insurance has a pretty simple rule: if a dive was planned to no more than 40m (130') and any venture beyond 40m was caused by external circumstances during the incident, I'm covered. No matter my cert.

I may not have been clear, it is the dive OP's and its insurance carrier that is seeking to lower their risk by limiting divers to their certs recommended limit.


Bob

 

[tursiops]

I'm going by what I was told at Scuba Shack in Kihei, HI several years ago. That was the first time I'd been to Hawai'i so naturally I asked about local conditions etc and they informed me that, at least on Maui, a BC and a diver's flag/float were required by law. I'd never even used a BC before that so I just rented what they offered. Maybe they were just trying to make more money off of me but they didn't seem like that kind of operation. The other dive shop that I decided not to use did. As for the flag, at one popular dive site that I visited several times everyone just anchored their flag once they got out a ways and picked it up on the way in. Sometimes it was difficult to pick out the right one.

Here is the current Hawaii law about a dive flag. It is certainly unambiguous. See section §13-245-9 Divers flag.
http://files.hawaii.gov/dlnr/dobor/rules/compiled/HAR245-Compiled.pdf

I can find nothing about scuba buoyancy devices BC, BCD, or other diver equipment. Lots of rules about commercial activities, of course.

I suspect your Scuba Shack person was either misinformed, or you misremember, or there was confusion about agency training rules versus state/county diving rules.

 

[Alucard]

When I got OW certified with SSI in 2006, it was explained to me that my limit was 130 feet, but that for the first few dives without a dive master I should restrict it to 60 feet in order to get really comfortable with it. Once I got comfortable I could extend that 60 foot depth but that I should dive within what I felt my limits are and not go deeper than that.

I now have 120 dives and NITROX certification under my (weight) belt, and am comfortable at depths greater than 100 feet. I never got AOW training (or whatever the SSI equivalent is).

So it sounds like some dive ops might refuse to take me below 60 feet with my training and dive history, because I never spent the money for Advanced training.

I ask those that run dive ops - who would you rather take deep with you? Someone who rushed through OW and AOW with the absolute minimum number of required dives, or someone that has been diving for over 10 years, with 120 dives and only OW certification? (This assumes that all the dives were in a similar environment)

 

[AdivingBel]

I ask those that run dive ops - who would you rather take deep with you? Someone who rushed through OW and AOW with the absolute minimum number of required dives, or someone that has been diving for over 10 years, with 120 dives and only OW certification?

First of all the number of AOW divers with the minimum number of dives is a trivial number. Folks bring that up in this discussion like there are hordes of these people and that is simply not the case. Honestly 120 dives over 10 years is not a ton of dives either, IMHO, but that's beside the point as well. While I'm sure some dive ops are "in it for the money" (I haven't seen many 'cause it doesn't seem like a great way to make lot's of money), in my experience, dive ops are trying to please their customers and avoid as much "drama" on the water as possible. An AOW shows you've been deep at least once and are into the sport enough to get the cert. That isn't a foolproof way to sort divers, but if you're a diver that's walked in off the street (i.e. they don't know you) at least it's documented. Again, in my experience (N=1), many quality dive ops will offer a way around this by offering to take a look at a logbook and let you make your case; take you if you hire a guide (not necessarily a bad thing if it's an unfamiliar site for you); or will take you after you do a dive with them on a less challenging site so they can assess your skills (get to know you).

I really haven't run into this that often (certainly not as often as it comes up on SB ), and some places more than others (South FL / FL Keys deeper wreck dives for example), but SB has a worldwide audience and different places have different rules, customs, and diving environments. You could run into a busy op during high season that might be sticklers and you never know when you'll get the "deer in headlights" look from the new kid behind the counter that only "follows their rules." It's a good idea to research new areas you're planning to dive to make sure you have the required certs. In the end it's "their boat, their rules," and who needs extra hassles when you're having a good time.

Also, IMHO, AOW is a good cert to get while traveling. There's not much book work and I've seen several situations where the cost of the cert isn't much more than the cost of the dives. Plus specialty options can be much greater (and more enjoyable) at a tropical/resort locale than if you live land locked like I do. All IMHO, YMMV. Safe diving...

 

[Alucard]

First of all the number of AOW divers with the minimum number of dives is a trivial number. Folks bring that up in this discussion like there are hordes of these people and that is simply not the case.

Oh I will readily admit that, although my sister-in-law did exactly this during a trip to Australia - PADI OW followed right away with PADI AOW, and I have met a couple of other people in the Cayman Islands who did exactly that. So while not common, it's not unheard of.

Honestly 120 dives over 10 years is not a ton of dives either, IMHO, but that's beside the point as well.

I completely agree - wasn't trying to pretend I was someone with a vast amount of experience.

While my hypothetical was extreme, I admit, I was just trying to see how strictly dive ops stick to the "AOW to go deep" thing.

Again, in my experience (N=1), many quality dive ops will offer a way around this by offering to take a look at a logbook and let you make your case;

Which was fine when we all maintained paper logbooks, but these days they are all in a computer - my logbook is stored on a USB hard drive which I won't be taking to the dive shop, because they wouldn't have the software to read it (I use the Uwatek SmartTRAK software - so I don't think that would be an option for me.

or will take you after you do a dive with them on a less challenging site so they can assess your skills (get to know you)

See, I would have no problem with doing that at all. In fact, if I have just traveled to a destination I would take it as an opportunity to do an "equipment shakedown" dive to make sure everything is working fine.

I guess I'm curious as to how many Ops wouldn't even give me a chance to prove that I have the necessary skills because I haven't taken the training and got the card.

You could run into a busy op during high season that might be sticklers and you never know when you'll get the "deer in headlights" look from the new kid behind the counter that only "follows their rules."

Oh yes, that's exactly why I am asking - to try to get a bit of a feel for it. I'm not trying to criticize, but to get information.

 

[tursiops]

I ask those that run dive ops - who would you rather take deep with you? Someone who rushed through OW and AOW with the absolute minimum number of required dives, or someone that has been diving for over 10 years, with 120 dives and only OW certification? (This assumes that all the dives were in a similar environment)

Kinds of depends. Do I have to take the diver's word for it that he has 120 dives in lots of kinds of environments and is a cool due that can easily go to 100ft? Then No, divers lie, just like real people do. If you can show me some evidence for the 120 dives and great experience, maybe. But if you'll go on a simple, bottom in sight, no drama dive first, then most likely I'll take you deep. Or, show me an AOW card....and I'll still want to do that easy diver first. Note that most live-aboards will do a very controlled, simple dive first.....even though they may have already gotten tons of documentaiton and cert info in advance of the trip.

 

[Alucard]

See, that makes sense to me - whether they claim they have done deep dives or they have a AOW card you'd want to see them in the water in easier conditions.

I mean what's to stop someone faking up a log book by making up dives?

 

[abnfrog]

faking a log book is easier than faking a card .....but in the end its up to the instructor / boat operator to judge .....jm2 cents

 

[electric_diver]

ACUC specifies a 130 foot limit but that divers are not to exceed 80 feet until they have 20 logged dives/10 hours.

see: http://acuc.es/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/3I-staowdi.pdf

 

[BlueTrin]

See, that makes sense to me - whether they claim they have done deep dives or they have a AOW card you'd want to see them in the water in easier conditions.

I mean what's to stop someone faking up a log book by making up dives?

Nothing stops you from lying but if you have an accident I think the liability is more likely to be with you. The shop is less likely to be liable if they got you to write your lie about the experience on a piece of paper.