Help me pick a regulator set for my 11 year old son, please

[lowwall]

...I have an opportunity to get a very sizable discount on regulators made by the following brands...: Halcyon, Dive Rite, Atomic, Scubapro, Hollis, Oceanic, OMS, Zeagle, Apeks, and Aqualung.

That's quite a list. The ScubaPro and Atomics fans will be along shortly to give you their recs and they are not wrong. I prefer diaphragm to piston regs which would rule Atomics out for me. But those who own them seem to love them.

Other comments...

Halcyon sells 2 models of rebadged ScubaPro first and second stages with a lower price (in the USA). Most people prefer the look of the ScubaPro versions, but if your son likes the look of the big H and you are happy with one of the available options then you've got an even bigger bargain at hand.

Apeks would normally be a great choice, but their parent company Aqualung is going through some financial difficulties and will soon be under new ownership. No one can tell how it will all play out, so I'd hold off for now.

I'd still keep the DGX D6 package in mind. It's going to be tough to beat the package price. And you can sell the SPG and hose for $50 if you really don't want it

 

[BoltSnap]

Brand list: Halcyon, Dive Rite, Atomic, Scubapro, Hollis, Oceanic, OMS, Zeagle, Apeks, and Aqualung

1. Atomic (Sealed fs Z2)

2. Scubapro (MK11/C370)

3. Zeagle (F8)


Note: you obviously can buy higher end in the Atomic and SP line than what I suggested.

 

[dulinor]

Although I love my Atomics - with one ludicrously expensive new model exception they're all the same (excellent) design just differing materials but If you're not already in the ecosystem I wouldn't jump in if you're going to do long hose. Most of them come with a very nice comfort swivel which, if you're going to do long hose, you're going to immediately get rid of. They can use standard hoses but there will be some futzing with a jam nut or the like to make it work. With so many good options out there why not get something that works from the beginning.

So, my vote would be something from the Halcyon/ScubaPro world.

If you do want Atomic the Z2/M1 are the ones without the comfort swivel. The Z2 is the "basic" reg but works great. My wife has dove one since 2009 and it's held up well. (I have a B2 because I am a sucker for bling but other than a swivel on the first stage it's not any better.)

 

[JoeTPhilly]

First off, let me thank everyone that replied. Even if things got off topic, I learn a lot on here often as a result of threads going off topic.

Thank you for all of the great advice. I'm going to sit down with my son and give him some ideas and let him mull them over. While he makes better money than I did at age 11 ($2 per week seemed like fair wage back then), he obviously does not make enough money to afford to buy all of his own gear. Nor would I expect him to. I'm excited that he has expressed a strong interest in investing his money into scuba gear, at a cost of not spending it on video games (I'm looking at you, Modern Warfare III!). I'll find some way to make it equitable for him, even if it means I buy the regs and he buys the hoses!

Having had 2 regulator failures in the past month, I'm a bit leery of encouraging him to buy a used regulator when neither of us are trained or skilled at servicing it. Like others here, I have bought a lot of used scuba gear for my own use (and some for my wife's use) and don't generally have an issue with it, but the difference between buying used fins or a used wetsuit and a used regulator is that I am qualified to inspect fins or a wetsuit, I'm totally new to the DIY regulator servicing and have never spent enough time taking one apart to understand how they work. That is my failing, not his, and I may buy some vintage gear so that we can both learn more about it. His goal in life is to work for SpaceX, and he's inquisitive by nature.

As for the long hose.... he's a kid and I dive a long hose. Is long hose better? That's another thread. Should you use a long hose when rec diving? That's another thread. Either way, I know it would make him feel good diving the same type gear that I dive, configured in the same way. It might not be perfect, but what really is? I am hoping that in the next few years he and I can take GUE fundies together, as I know my wife isn't really interested in it. She's been my dive buddy for 200+ dives, but she has zero interest in DIR or GUE or tec or overhead environments or anything outside of relaxing open water fun dives. She did manage to put up with me and get every non-professional PADI cert available before our son was born.

I have an opportunity to get a very sizable discount on regulators made by the following brands (it's a one time offer personal from a shop). If you have any recommendations within these brands, I can buy them new at a discount that puts them a bit under what I see used pricing going for here or on eBay. Brand list: Halcyon, Dive Rite, Atomic, Scubapro, Hollis, Oceanic, OMS, Zeagle, Apeks, and Aqualung.

Lastly, to those that suggested vintage gear - one of my bucket list items is to dive a vintage double hose rig.

For the regulators I like Scubapro. You can get them serviced anywhere. They are pricey but it is a one time purchase. I would take advantage of the discount and get a system before Scubapro raises their prices in the next couple of months. They seem to be like clockwork with their fall price increase...

Based on your gear selection I had a feeling you were looking toward taking Fundamentals. A 7 foot hose would be the way to go as you might as well "begin with the end in mind". You will hear all the reasons from non GUE divers like it is not for open water and is only for caves, the hose is going to come unsecured and be hanging all over the place (like we don't see octos dragging all over the place) and the multitude of other reasons. I will say my petite girlfriend did Discover Scuba dives in GUE configuration and did not have any problems.

 

[James79]

Another factor on keeping Deep6 in the running is that they support self service (they want some evidence you know what you're doing, but seem to be flexible on what constitutes that evidence... i.e. Rsingler's course is not a factory sponsored by anyone, but D6 accepts it).

 

[lexvil]

I think the Zeagle F8 is an excellent choice and starts off in the lower mid range for price but it’s at the top for performance.

 

[stuartv]

Of the brands given, I would go:

#1 Atomic Z2

#2 (tie) Dive Rite XT1 + XT4

#2 (tie) ScubaPro Mk25 EVO + G260

(very distant) #4 Halcyon H75P + Halo

I own or have owned all of those.

To address some comments above, the Atomic Z2 does not have the Comfort Swivel, which is one of the reasons I prefer it (over, for example, the Z3 which is the exact same reg but with the Comfort Swivel).

On the Z2, it comes with a "normal" LP hose, so you can just straight up swap to any length hose you want. No issues. No futzing with a jam nut.

Which is good, because Atomic regs, just like almost every other brand, come with hose lengths that are crap. Dive Rite comes with good hose lengths. The others - they all give you something like a 32 - 36 inch hose. Atomic does 36".

I have no use for any hose in the 32 - 36 inch range on a single tank reg set. It's too long for the reg that goes directly from the 1st stage to my mouth and it's too short for the hose that goes down behind my shoulder and loops under my right arm.

I think Atomic does it that way so you can use any of their regs either paired with a normal octo, OR you can use it with their SS1 ("safe second" BCD inflator/octo combo device). The 36" hose CAN be used for the reg that goes straight from the 1st stage to your mouth. It bows WAY out to the right and comes back, but you can use it that way. And it is just barely long enough to convince yourself you can donate that reg to an OOA diver, while you switch to the SS1 for yourself.

So, when I was using Z2 regs for my single tank (Z2 1st stage with 2 x Z2 2nd stages), I swapped the hoses on both 2nd stages - one shorter and one longer. The Z2 not having a Comfort Swivel made that just the same as swapping hoses on any other brand.

Also, remember, the Z2 is their lowest price reg. But, it is made with the same materials all the other guys are using for their most expensive regs. A Z2 is like talking about the lowest priced Bentley or the lowest priced Rolex. It and the ScubaPro and the Dive Rite are all just chrome (or PVD) over brass for their first stage. They're all just polycarbonate, zirconium, and whatever for their 2nd stage. Don't ignore the Z2 just because it's less expensive (than SP - it's still about $30 more than the DR reg).

ScubaPro would also require changing hoses to get the "right" (i.e. MY preferred) lengths.

A Dive Rite set should come with the right hoses out of the box. I think you can even special request all rubber hoses when you order. Otherwise, they come with braided hoses. (I would request all rubbber, myself)

 

[lowwall]

I prefer diaphragm regs. Having a thick rubber diaphragm between whatever I'm swimming in and the internals of my first stage just seems like a better solution to me.

Keeping in mind that this reg is for a kid and that budget matters, I'm going to suggest the ScubaPro Mk11/C370 combo from your list of manufacturers. Both are light and compact stages which are good for a smaller divers and travelling divers of any size.

If he gets to the point where he wants a - heavy and expensive - full tech/extreme cold setup like a Mk19 Evo/G260, you can easily sell the Mk11/C370 or keep it in the family for travel dives.

 

[stuartv]

I prefer diaphragm regs. Having a thick rubber diaphragm between whatever I'm swimming in and the internals of my first stage just seems like a better solution to me.

... until that diaphragm blows out...

 

[lowwall]

... until that diaphragm blows out...

Have you ever heard of this happening to a Mk11? Or any other diaphragm first stage for that matter? It's a thick piece of rubber that's clamped all around its circumstance. It only sees intermediate pressure on the sealed side (and ambient on the other).

I have seen @rsingler's photos of ScubaPro piston reg bodies that had to be scrapped due to internal scoring.