Help for Gabi

[driftin' by]

Dear Ron,

I encourage anyone to help in any way they can, but if I am gonna match it, I have to see the pesos!


Dave Dillehay
Aldora Divers

Totally understandable! I bring some pesos in November. I was just wanting to help out sooner before my pesos got spent on something else.

 

[DandyDon]

For myself, I've been diving with my current op for almost 7 years, so things had been said in general conversation in the past. But after the subject came up now, I asked directly. It's not even so much that I would worry about diving with an op that didn't cover their employees, but more so that I would like to see dive ops value their employees enough to cover them, if they are able to. Not knowing much about MX SS, is it expensive, and that's why they don't cover employees? I've had the impression it wasn't cost prohibitive, but I could be wrong.

Ok, well - I can ask dive Ops, hotels, and cafes if they are fully legal in their employees, permits, taxes, etc. but I doubt that would accomplish anything. I could ask for proof but that is not going to happen. It really falls on the authorities to enforce local requirements and the employees to insist on enforcement. Yeah, ok - that can be easier said than done, like if the DM loses a job but he gets an offer for another one, and he has a family to take care of.

Tesibria seems to have supplied good info on what the minimums are - see below, and I guess there are permits, bribes maybe, bookkeeping, etc. to deal with so it's tempting to try to sidestep all that. Sad that it was done, and accepted by the employee as he certainly does need a lot of help and does have a family to feed & shelter. Many people have donated, as I did, and it's great that many are continuing to donate. Dave has been wonderful in donating to compensate for a competitor's shortcomings, and even more so now with this gesture.

But as far as us enforcing rules and regs, nah - I don't see it possible.

It's all relative, no?

The Mexico minimum wage is a daily wage rate equal to about $4-4.50 USD/day (varies depending on state).

Employers generally are required to contribute to multiple government programs, based on employee qualifying wages (similar to social security, disability insurance, workers comp, etc. in the US, as well as a few that are not in the US such as low income housing and day-care related contributions). Add up all the required contributions and it equals about 50-60% of the employee’s wages give-or-take a few percentage points.

Additionally, employees generally are entitled to a Christmas bonus (equal to about 15 days' wages) and paid vacation (varies depending on seniority – starts at 6 days per year), and other paid time off or premiums for consecutive work days beyond six. So add a premium of about 20-25% on top of wage payments.

Additionally, there's no "at will" employment in Mexico, which means that employees generally are entitled to severance if terminated for any reason other than cause (amount depends on seniority).

So, a general rule of thumb is that the “cost” (to comply with laws) is about double an employee’s qualifying wages.

So, back to “it’s all relative” ... the overall cost of properly classifying individuals as employees can be almost double the cost of various “off the book” arrangements.... Whether that's prohibitive depends on what the employee's base qualifying wage is (....and how you value compliance with laws and protecting your employees against the cost of running a business, I guess ...).




Disclaimer: This information is general information only and does not constitute legal advice in any way shape or form.

 

[sealkie]

I think if the establishment you are frequenting be it a cafe or dive shop charges less than the others in the area they are keeping their costs lower somehow - doesn't take much to conclude in some cases this is by operating under the host country legal radar.

 

[Tesibria]

Ok, well - I can ask dive Ops, hotels, and cafes if they are fully legal in their employees, permits, taxes, etc. but I doubt that would accomplish anything. I could ask for proof but that is not going to happen.

You could ask them for their SIEM Number.
SIEM = Sistema de Informacion Empresarial Mexicano = Mexican Business Information System. It’s similar to our various states' Secretary of State Business Registries.

If the business won’t give you their SIEM #, that’s a big whopping REDFLAG (for those who want to do business with legally-registered companies).

If they give you their SIEM #, you can check them out in the online directory @ http://www.siem.gob.mx/siem2008/intranet.asp?language=1, which contains several “data points” about the company, including number of employees.

If they’re not listed in SIEM, that’s ... at a minimum, a yellow flag – you can then follow up to ask them why you can’t find them there.
If they’re listed in SIEM with 2 employees, but their website says they have 20 DMs ... that’s another yellow flag. (I’m not sure how often that type of info is updated – maybe someone legally registered with SIEM can provide further info on that.)

This is no different than checking out a company in the states to make sure it’s a legally registered company. It’s not exactly BBB or Angie’s List – but it provides the basics.

It really falls on the authorities to enforce local requirements and the employees to insist on enforcement. Yeah, ok - that can be easier said than done, like if the DM loses a job but he gets an offer for another one, and he has a family to take care of.
***
But as far as us enforcing rules and regs, nah - I don't see it possible.

True – and it’s not our “job” to enforce rules and regs.
HOWEVER – just as one often checks BBB or Angie’s List before hiring a roofer or checks Trip Advisor before picking a hotel, someone who truly “cares” about whether the DMs are getting the insurance, etc., required by Mexico law *can* check the system.

That’s not seeking to impose US rules on another country – or seeking to be an “enforcer.”
That’s merely ... uhm ... conscious consumerism.

I would think that “legal” dive shops could use this “issue” as ... a great marketing opportunity vis-a-vis potential clients. Shops list PADI certification and other “certifications.” Why not list that they are registered business? It’s not quite the same thing as US companies listing BBB A+ Certified ... but it’s something. If I were checking out two different dive shops – one with information letting me know that they registered employees/paid the insurance, etc. (or providing the info where I can check it out myself), and one that was silent about the issue, I know which one I’d want to go with.

 

[underachiever]

You could ask them for their SIEM Number.
SIEM = Sistema de Informacion Empresarial Mexicano = Mexican Business Information System. It’s similar to our various states' Secretary of State Business Registries.

If the business won’t give you their SIEM #, that’s a big whopping REDFLAG (for those who want to do business with legally-registered companies).

If they give you their SIEM #, you can check them out in the online directory @ S I E M, which contains several “data points” about the company, including number of employees.

If they’re not listed in SIEM, that’s ... at a minimum, a yellow flag – you can then follow up to ask them why you can’t find them there.
If they’re listed in SIEM with 2 employees, but their website says they have 20 DMs ... that’s another yellow flag. (I’m not sure how often that type of info is updated – maybe someone legally registered with SIEM can provide further info on that.)

This is no different than checking out a company in the states to make sure it’s a legally registered company. It’s not exactly BBB or Angie’s List – but it provides the basics.



True – and it’s not our “job” to enforce rules and regs.
HOWEVER – just as one often checks BBB or Angie’s List before hiring a roofer or checks Trip Advisor before picking a hotel, someone who truly “cares” about whether the DMs are getting the insurance, etc., required by Mexico law *can* check the system.

That’s not seeking to impose US rules on another country – or seeking to be an “enforcer.”
That’s merely ... uhm ... conscious consumerism.

I would think that “legal” dive shops could use this “issue” as ... a great marketing opportunity vis-a-vis potential clients. Shops list PADI certification and other “certifications.” Why not list that they are registered business? It’s not quite the same thing as US companies listing BBB A+ Certified ... but it’s something. If I were checking out two different dive shops – one with information letting me know that they registered employees/paid the insurance, etc. (or providing the info where I can check it out myself), and one that was silent about the issue, I know which one I’d want to go with.

So who do you dive with and how long have you been diving in Cozumel? Maybe you can share the dive shops that meet the criteria you mention for those who may be interested.

 

[Texas Torpedo]

This thread is a donation thread... Some being generously matched by Dave D...
I think a new thread relating to this topic would be quite appropriate, while we keep this one focused on generating donations for Gabi and his family.
I'll be down soon and I too plan to take Dave up on his matching offer.

 

[DandyDon]

So who do you dive with and how long have you been diving in Cozumel? Maybe you can share the dive shops that meet the criteria you mention for those who may be interested.

Hardly a fair request. You need to ask her to research all of the Ops on the island and report, but then - nah...

 

[underachiever]

This thread is a donation thread... Some being generously matched by Dave D...
I think a new thread relating to this topic would be quite appropriate, while we keep this one focused on generating donations for Gabi and his family.
I'll be down soon and I too plan to take Dave up on his matching offer.

Thanks Dave for keeping this open till Nov. and for your generosity. We will be by on Nov. 5th to see if you have reached your max. for matching the donations for Gabi. If not maybe we can help put you over the top. And also would like to meet you if you are around. Thanks again for helping our friend.

 

[chakchy]

Victor from the shop here for "Gabiloco" .. To send donations directly to Gabiloco GABRIEL SILVA ...

This is his personal Mexican Bank account. If you need to call Gabi to confirm this bank info his Cozumel cell # is 011 521 987 119 8691
OR you may contact him via his facebook GABRIEL SILVA
https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100002932939295

DESTINATION BANK

BANK .... BANCO MERCANTIL DEL NORTE
BRANCH ... 741
LOCATION ... COZUMEL, QROO, MEXICO
ADDRESS ... 5TA AVE N 9
SYSTEM ... SWIFT MENOMXMT

BENEFICIARY INFORMATION

NAME .... WILIAN GABRIEL SILVA BORGES
ACCOUNT ... 0803141573
ADDRESS .... COZUMEL, QROO, MEXICO
(ROUTING) …..0726920

BANK INTERMEDIARY

BANK.... THE BANK OF NEW YORK
... ADDRESS... 101 BARCLAY ST, NEW YORK, NEW YORK 10286
ABA (ROUTING) .... 021000018
SWIFT .... IRVTUS3N

 

[chakchy]

We here at the Scuba Mau family would like to take a moment of your time to say thank you. During this time all I have seen is unconditional love and support towards our sister and her family! The donations and the true showing of the human spirit,compassion has been able to bring a smile to everyones face here and at home!
I want everyone to know that our sister is smiling down from above to all that has helped and supported Gabi her family and her dream here on this island!
Opal always believed that a dive shop wasnt about a name...It just wasnt about business...It was about being a family and taking care of those who come to visit you just like family....Opals family here on the island is going to stay right here and continue on Opals dream of bringing the family feeling into everyones vacation experience... Besides anyone that knows Opal would know that she would probably haunt us if anything was to happen to her dream!
The dive family that Opal has here cannot express in words our grattitude that we have towards all that have supported Opals dream and continue to support it to this day. Let us always remember that Gabi still needs our support while he reocvers from his injuries we can never forget the man that put his life on the line to give our sister a fighting chance!
From the bottom of all our hearts...MUCHAS GRACIAS See you when you get down here!!!
Sincerely, The Scuba Mau Cozumel family.