Help: Cost/ benefit of regulator setup options?

[gabardine]

I'm trying to figure out the long-term cost BEFORE I buy the last major piece of equipment...my whole regulator setup. I work at a museum (no money there), and with the exception of my laptop, this will be the most expensive thing I've ever bought. Holy cow, is this a tricky purchase! Ultimately, I'd rather save that few hundred bucks and use it to get somewhere beautiful than blow it on pricey service or unnecessary features/ level of quality.

1. How often do the various parts (first stage, second stage, octo) need serviced: annually or every XX dives? (I'll be diving maybe one day a month in chilly Cali, and hopefully continue to do a few tropical weks a year.)

2. About how much does each component's service cost? Do some regs require more frequent or expensive service than others?

3. I assume new parts are a pricey part of service, some regs form licensed dealers come with annual service kits for free, any tips?

4. I can't tell if the savings from an ebay or other internet purchase are worth it without figuing ouw much parts and service are. A first, second and octo Mares V32 Proton Ice just sold on ebay for $425. Is that (in the long term) a better or worse deal than a $800 package from a dealer?

Thanks! I'm stumped, and probably missing entirely some other great, reliable, non show-off setup with nearly free service.

 

[ScubaRider]

I can’t speak for the other regs out there but I know that atomics reg get service every two years. They might cost a little more but you get what you pay for.

 

[OnlineScuba]

I'm trying to figure out the long-term cost BEFORE I buy the last major piece of equipment...my whole regulator setup. I work at a museum (no money there), and with the exception of my laptop, this will be the most expensive thing I've ever bought. Holy cow, is this a tricky purchase! Ultimately, I'd rather save that few hundred bucks and use it to get somewhere beautiful than blow it on pricey service or unnecessary features/ level of quality. Based on your diving expectations I would recommend an intermediate package that should cover everything you need and then some. Would need to know your budget in order to really give you proper options.

1. How often do the various parts (first stage, second stage, octo) need serviced: annually or every XX dives? (I'll be diving maybe one day a month in chilly Cali, and hopefully continue to do a few tropical weks a year.) Every product you are referring to will ask for them to be serviced Annually to keep them in warranty. Atomic is every two years. With that being said, it is not the "use" of the regulator that makes the internal parts wear down. Wether being used or in storage, the high and low pressure seats are always touching with the pressure of a spring tension that over time will cause a seat to have an indentation. If not serviced this will eventually cause the regulator to free flow. That is good as the opposite is no air at all. Not good. Atomic has a spring that when not pressurized the tension releases, hence the 2 year service.

2. About how much does each component's service cost? Do some regs require more frequent or expensive service than others? Average recreational divers will need annual service, that is pretty much it. I will take my PADI hat off and tell you that many people do not annualy service their regs and they will tell you that there is no problem. In most cases they may be OK but the issue here, and I hate to preach, this is Life Support Equipment. Don't you think you are worth it? Same goes with the warranty issues for better pricing. I am rambling but you get the point.

3. I assume new parts are a pricey part of service, some regs form licensed dealers come with annual service kits for free, any tips? Many manufacturers are offering 1 to years of parts for free while others have lifetime warranty. Be careful though as they all are pretty strict on keeping within your "year" from the date of purchase to have them serviced. The kits ordinarily will run about $12 to $20 for a complete set up First Stage, Primary, Octo and Gauge. Labor is typically about $50

4. I can't tell if the savings from an ebay or other internet purchase are worth it without figuing ouw much parts and service are. A first, second and octo Mares V32 Proton Ice just sold on ebay for $425. Is that (in the long term) a better or worse deal than a $800 package from a dealer? Speaking for myself as a Dive Ship owner and Online Retailer at Discount Scuba Gear|Scuba Diving Equipment|Snorkeling Gear|Scuba Diving we are fully authorized dealers for the products we sell. So, in the case of Mares, you would receive the full warranty, (which I sure any ebay retailer will not have) and we make it worth your time by providing your first year of service for FREE, join our Scuba Club and you get 2 years for FREE. We understand that you want the best price, service and knowledgeable folks who know what you need. We try hard to work within your budget, your skill level and your anticipated amount of diving. Quite simply we try to be your LDS on the Web.

Hope this helps

 

[halocline]

Wether being used or in storage, the high and low pressure seats are always touching with the pressure of a spring tension that over time will cause a seat to have an indentation. If not serviced this will eventually cause the regulator to free flow. That is good as the opposite is no air at all. Not good. Atomic has a spring that when not pressurized the tension releases, hence the 2 year service.......

I will take my PADI hat off and tell you that many people do not annualy service their regs and they will tell you that there is no problem. In most cases they may be OK but the issue here, and I hate to preach, this is Life Support Equipment. Don't you think you are worth it? Same goes with the warranty issues for better pricing. I am rambling but you get the point.

The 1st stage HP seat is not in contact with the orifice during storage, only the 2nd stage LP seat. Well designed 2nds will not take enough of a seat to require seat replacement every year, if they are serviced and adjusted correctly in the first place. Many, many divers throughout the world dive for years without rebuilding and have done so for a long time.

But the big thing I wanted to comment on was your 2nd statement, the dive industry fear-as-sales-tactic mantra of "Isn't your life worth it?" It's an especially nice touch to make this statement in the same post as recommending Atomic regs (very expensive) the insinuation being that very expensive regs are safer. Someday people will stop falling for this, I hope, but I kind of doubt it.

Back to the OP; one current way to get maximum diving from minimum investment, IMO, would be to find a new MK2/R190 on closeout, and only get it serviced every other year, or every three years, or whenever you feel its performance is falling or have a problem. This advice is dependent on your ability to take care of the reg; keeping water out of the first stage, and making sure your thoroughly rinse/soak away any trace of salt water after each dive. The R190 has a "seat saver" feature that allows you to store the reg with the purge partially depressed, which separates the 2nd stage LP seat from the orifice.

Again, though, any decent reg will serve you really well. Don't fall for the "you get what you pay for" cr@p that is another thinly veiled sales pitch. Expensive regs are sold by features, high performance well beyond what's necessary, and more than a little hype.

 

[redacted]

. Average recreational divers will need annual service, that is pretty much it. I will take my PADI hat off and tell you that many people do not annualy service their regs and they will tell you that there is no problem. In most cases they may be OK but the issue here, and I hate to preach, this is Life Support Equipment. Don't you think you are worth it? Same goes with the warranty issues for better pricing. I am rambling but you get the point.[/COLOR]
/QUOTE]

I think you will find that your "Life Support" trump card may play better in an LDS where divers knowledge of their equipment is limited to what was learned in the shop. Most folks mhere probably understand that the best wat to make your regulator dangerous is to ignore the early signs of a problem like a leak, to run into defective parts, or to have it serviced by an incompetent or uncaring shop tech who may leave you with over or under tightened connections.

Orings and seats will last much much longer than a year with adequate user care.

 

[Luis H]

The 1st stage HP seat is not in contact with the orifice during storage, only the 2nd stage LP seat. Well designed 2nds will not take enough of a seat to require seat replacement every year, if they are serviced and adjusted correctly in the first place. Many, many divers throughout the world dive for years without rebuilding and have done so for a long time.

But the big thing I wanted to comment on was your 2nd statement, the dive industry fear-as-sales-tactic mantra of "Isn't your life worth it?" It's an especially nice touch to make this statement in the same post as recommending Atomic regs (very expensive) the insinuation being that very expensive regs are safer. Someday people will stop falling for this, I hope, but I kind of doubt it.

Back to the OP; one current way to get maximum diving from minimum investment, IMO, would be to find a new MK2/R190 on closeout, and only get it serviced every other year, or every three years, or whenever you feel its performance is falling or have a problem. This advice is dependent on your ability to take care of the reg; keeping water out of the first stage, and making sure your thoroughly rinse/soak away any trace of salt water after each dive. The R190 has a "seat saver" feature that allows you to store the reg with the purge partially depressed, which separates the 2nd stage LP seat from the orifice.

Again, though, any decent reg will serve you really well. Don't fall for the "you get what you pay for" cr@p that is another thinly veiled sales pitch. Expensive regs are sold by features, high performance well beyond what's necessary, and more than a little hype.

Nice post.

It seems like onlinescuba doesn’t have a good understanding of how regulators first stages work.

IMHO, I just don’t care for all this conditional “life time warranty” were all you get is free parts after spending money on labor. The parts they replace are cheep.

The concept of “if it is not broke don’t fix it” still applies. Proper maintenance and inspections are critical, but I only service the first stages of my regulators when they need it (IP drift, any signs of corrosion, etc.). The second stages I may service every few years. It has worked for me for 36 years (the first 10 I worked at a few dive shops).

Also this whole thing about “life support equipment” is such a huge bunch of cr@p, it is really annoying. IMHO, if a diver really feels like his life is in danger with a simple regulator malfunction, they need better training.

A simple free flow (the most likely regulator failure) should never be life threatening and even a complete air shut off should never be life threatening, with proper training and preplanned alternative options for the situation.

 

[halocline]

Also this whole thing about “life support equipment” is such a huge bunch of cr@p, it is really annoying. IMHO, if a diver really feels like his life is in danger with a simple regulator malfunction, they need better training.

A simple free flow (the most likely regulator failure) should never be life threatening and even a complete air shut off should never be life threatening, with proper training and preplanned alternative options for the situation.

Exactly.

 

[Nick_W]

Guys, you've made good points and all but I don't know if any of you noticed this thread is four years old. Seems this onlinescuba representative is digging up old threads in order to do some advertising.

 

[OnlineScuba]

You know what, I am fairly new to the board and didn't even notice the date of this thread. As far as the added information given by Luis, I can feel your sincerity even though it is definately coming from a place that I did not intend to foster.

As far as the corrections go I have some definate counter thoughts on how often you should service your equipment, but you are right about the first stage seats, I was rambling. So, Happy Diving folks.