Help! Advice needed on buying "gray market"

[divad]

$39.00

 

[breathe_nitrox]

Gray market does not usually imply repos or counterfeit. My impression is that LP gets its equipment cheaper then the LDS because they buy in quantity and cut out the US distributor and then either buy from a European distributor or directly from the manufacturer, whereas the LDS must buy in low volume from the US distributor. The US distributor (or US division of the company) mark up significantly more then the European distributors. The down side to this of course is that your warranty is not valid. Of course as has already been pointed out how valuable is that warranty anyway. And then LP does provide its own warranty. Another possible down side would be getting an instruction manual that was not in English, although with the UK being a major European customer I don't think that very likely. I just ordered a Dive computer from LP for $670.00 that one of the LDS wanted $890.00 for. I think you should be OK buying the reg from LP. You may end up paying a little more for service, to cover the cost of the part, but I can't see labor being more, and it is the major portion of the bill. If your LDS refuses to service it, which I doubt (why turn away business?), there are other dive shops to send it too. I would not try the switcharoo that was suggested earlier, thats just wrong anyway you look at it. If you dislike your LDS that much find a new LDS. If your LDS spent a significant amount of time showing you regs and answering questions, or if you want to build up a good report with him then throw him the business. I'll be purchasing a Drysuit soon, and will definitely go through the LDS because of all the time and knowledge he has spent and will be spending with me on the dry suit. Sorry for the long post, I'm really bored and a little under the weather, so keep in mind I've had a large quantity of Niquil before you listen to my 2c.

 

[Uncle Pug]

evad once bubbled...
$39.00

I took two Zeagle/Apeks regs in to the LDS from which I had purchased them for servicing (past the annual service period) expecting the bill to be reasonable... I should have asked.

When I went to pick them up bill was $150 each.

 

[Dryglove]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

I took two Zeagle/Apeks regs in to the LDS from which I had purchased them for servicing (past the annual service period) expecting the bill to be reasonable... I should have asked.

When I went to pick them up bill was $150 each.

Ouch!! And you purchased the regs from this place and he still charged you that much.Did you get caught flirting with his wife or something? :cuddle: :nono:

 

[Uncle Pug]

.... the regs came back loaded with silicone and I had to have them cleaned for O2 service subsequently... at another shop.

I haven't purchased regulators at an LDS since... I only trust mail order now. Regulators are far to important an item to be purchasing from an LDS.

 

[captJohnBoy]

Wow, lots of great posts on this topic. I would probably not take the advice to switch out products with an LDS and online retailer simply because:
1) that would be ethically wrong
2) my LDS keeps my serial number on file. My LDS says he must make a copy of my service card from ScubaPro in order to get a free service kit for the yearly service. He is pretty strict about the 1 year service limitations (within 60 days or I lose the service)

Regs are those things that really should be purchased at your LDS (if it is reputable) simply because of the increased service level. (I've told him it's his problem if my important equipment breaks like the regs I've purchased from him!) Of course, this assumes that your dive shop is honest, knowledgeable, and not prohibitively higher (over 75% more) than online prices. If you can't trust your LDS, I would find one that you can trust -- remember, your life depends on your equipment starting around 33ft so don't always trust the lowest bidder!

My advice is to find a good LDS (not the ones in high vacation areas) that likes to service customers, not their balance sheets. Always find one that has a knowledgeable staff/techs, discuss your diving profiles with them, and make sure you know the price up-front. No reputable LDS or online retailer should refuse an estimated price and, unless the equipment is dead, the price to service should always be close to the estimates provided at the start.

Finally, my advice is to NEVER, NEVER, NEVER use untested equipment on a "big" trip. I would recommend that you need to go to a local dive site or pool and limit your dives to under 30 ft or so (depending on your dive experience and local conditions) so that you can verify that your equipment works properly and you gain confidence. If you have confidence in your equipment, you will definitely be able to control the situations better in the event of a breakage during a dive or an emergency condition. At the very least, you may find that your new equipment doesn't work and you don't want to find that out while at a vacation dive store (they will probably take you to the cleaners at some places).

Good luck!

 

[undah20]

Some things I've seen....


I have personal experience with LeisurePro selling regulators with mis-matched parts. As a scramble to avoid complaint, they 'threw together' a different models parts under the the guise of one reg model. Because they didn't know what they were doing, they seized some of the metal components together as the spank who thought it was good to torque it until veins were popping in arms and head was good and tight. No matter what was tried, the reg was screwed. Because it couldn't be taken apart for servicing, it ended up on Ebay...congrats to that lucky soul.

What everyone who pisses and moans about costs between LP (gray market) and LDS is missing...is the main issue on the lifetime warranty....free parts for life are good in two key points.

First, Scubapro for example, CONSTANTLY upgrades and makes their regulators of better and better performance. The parts are constantly made better and better. The key is that any of the old parts can be switched out and replaced with the better performing upgrade for that reg at no charge. Scubapro reimburses the dealer with a new upgrade part for every old part returned to them. You are COSNTANTLY getting a BETTER reg every tiem you get it serviced AT NO EXTRA CHARGE. (Plus, LP doesn't have a clue if something has been recalled, is defective, or if there is a change in technician proceedure - isn't important to know all of that? And when is the last time LP sent out notifications to anyone that somethin needed changed?)

...Dream on if you think you are kidding yourself by getting that service, notice, or expertise through gray market.

Second, Because of that lifetime warranty through the manufacturer and it's dealer base, if you need a part for your reg, but it is no longer manufactured and available, YOU GET A BRAND NEW TOP OF THE LINE REG REPLACEMENT - WITH FULL WARRANTY - AT NO EXTRA CHARGE! So, you never have an obsolete purchase.

Gray market joke - So, think you save $100- to whatever amount of savings you think is so great - and those saving are wiped out the first moment you start to pay for parts, and then later not only do you not have the fine relationship with your local dive store (as you've already proven to them that you only use them for cheap items and free advice and service) you are crewed when a part becomes obsolete and you never get the highest performance, latest and greatest upgrades. ...Think you will? Go get it in writing from LeisurePro and hold you breath waiting for an answer.

The LDS versus gray market thing constantly gets beaten to death. Start ordering your food, water, car service, healthcare and everything else wherever it's cheapest - even if the expertise or service isn't there because your cheap. Without your LDS, you wont be diving. Because if you so ignorant or (qualify your purchase as screw the LDS if they wont do what I want) that you put off your diving to save a buck or two, then you are probably too cheap to go out and buy an expensive compressor to fill your tanks when the LDS goes out of business for lack of support. (I suppose you'd "settle" for half-quality air soon also?)

It pays to have good backing, support, and service.

 

[redacted]

You don't say much in your profile.

undah20 once bubbled...
Some things I've seen....

I have personal experience with LeisurePro selling regulators with mis-matched parts. As a scramble to avoid complaint, they 'threw together' a different models parts under the the guise of one reg model. Because they didn't know what they were doing, they seized some of the metal components together as the spank who thought it was good to torque it until veins were popping in arms and head was good and tight. No matter what was tried, the reg was screwed. Because it couldn't be taken apart for servicing, it ended up on Ebay...congrats to that lucky soul.

What everyone who pisses and moans about costs between LP (gray market) and LDS is missing...is the main issue on the lifetime warranty....free parts for life are good in two key points.

First, Scubapro for example, CONSTANTLY upgrades and makes their regulators of better and better performance. The parts are constantly made better and better. The key is that any of the old parts can be switched out and replaced with the better performing upgrade for that reg at no charge. Scubapro reimburses the dealer with a new upgrade part for every old part returned to them. You are COSNTANTLY getting a BETTER reg every tiem you get it serviced AT NO EXTRA CHARGE. (Plus, LP doesn't have a clue if something has been recalled, is defective, or if there is a change in technician proceedure - isn't important to know all of that? And when is the last time LP sent out notifications to anyone that somethin needed changed?)

...Dream on if you think you are kidding yourself by getting that service, notice, or expertise through gray market.

Second, Because of that lifetime warranty through the manufacturer and it's dealer base, if you need a part for your reg, but it is no longer manufactured and available, YOU GET A BRAND NEW TOP OF THE LINE REG REPLACEMENT - WITH FULL WARRANTY - AT NO EXTRA CHARGE! So, you never have an obsolete purchase.

Gray market joke - So, think you save $100- to whatever amount of savings you think is so great - and those saving are wiped out the first moment you start to pay for parts, and then later not only do you not have the fine relationship with your local dive store (as you've already proven to them that you only use them for cheap items and free advice and service) you are crewed when a part becomes obsolete and you never get the highest performance, latest and greatest upgrades. ...Think you will? Go get it in writing from LeisurePro and hold you breath waiting for an answer.

The LDS versus gray market thing constantly gets beaten to death. Start ordering your food, water, car service, healthcare and everything else wherever it's cheapest - even if the expertise or service isn't there because your cheap. Without your LDS, you wont be diving. Because if you so ignorant or (qualify your purchase as screw the LDS if they wont do what I want) that you put off your diving to save a buck or two, then you are probably too cheap to go out and buy an expensive compressor to fill your tanks when the LDS goes out of business for lack of support. (I suppose you'd "settle" for half-quality air soon also?)

It pays to have good backing, support, and service.

 

[Lead_carrier]

Uncle Pug once bubbled...

I took two Zeagle/Apeks regs in to the LDS from which I had purchased them for servicing (past the annual service period) expecting the bill to be reasonable... I should have asked.

When I went to pick them up bill was $150 each.

Did they kiss you and promise to respect you in the morning when they finished?

 

[blawler1]

LP is gray market because they buy their products from LDSs that go under or have excess and do not obtain it directly from the manufacturer.