Helicopter Turn Tips

[Doc Harry]

Doc Harry, that sounds like something that works for you in open water, but I would not want to use that method of pivoting in a cave, where at best I could direct a jet of water to the ceiling and cause increased particulates, and at worst, I could actually damage the ceiling. Directly behind me seems like the best place for water to go, at least most of the time.

That technique was taught to me in GUE-F for tech pass. As evad said, sculling is sculling, you can point your fins in whatever direction is needed for the situation. Doing a combined frog/back kick to turn directs jets of water against the walls as you pivot. With a fins up sculling, you can pivot in a tight space without directing jets of water against the walls, providing the ceiling is high. I think it's valuable to have a a lot of arrows in your quiver to suit whatever the situation requires. In my experience, a sculling helicopter turn has much less effect on my environment that other methods of pivots.

 

[ShakaZulu]

YouTube - Technical Diving - Helicopter Turn

YouTube - The Helicopter Turn

 

[divad]

Normally a helicopter turn with sculling is a very gentle kick, much like the modified frog, just a little kick, just a little flutter at the ankle, just enough to do the job.

Ok. We're saying the same thing; half a "modified" frog kick and half a "modified" back kick, ie "just a little flutter at the ankle, just enough to do the job," makes a helicopter turn.

 

[lamont]

There's no need for 1/2 frog and 1/2 back kick.

A helicopter turn is best done with a sculling kick, with the tips pointed upwards.

yes, so do that on one side only, and that's a 1/2 back kick -- one fin only.

and the first thing a new diver needs to focus on is just what it feels like to get thrust off a kick which is going backwards.

if its a sculling kick or a power kick comes later and they're both useful, similarly the degree with which the fin tips are up or not also comes later and as long as its not creating dust devils in the silt, varying degrees of fin tips up are useful in different situations.

 

[TSandM]

Harry, I'll have to give it a try! In my classes, my instructors have always been at me to get my fin tips DOWN

 

[HenrikBP]

I think what Harry may mean by sculling is similar to a paddle stroke used in canoes and apparently kayaks: you're not "sweeping" the paddle, but essentially "slicing" the paddle left and right while angling the blade to generate just a bit of "pull" on the paddle away from you:

Kayak - How To Use a Sculling Draw Stroke - MonkeySee

Henrik

 

[FireInMyBones]

The concept of sculling makes good since to me as it applies to all swimming strokes I teach with the Red Cross. I tryied practicing in the floor today while watching some videos and having my younger brother try to physically manipulate my feet/ legs into what we saw on the videos. I look forward to hoping in a pool soon.

 

[Doc Harry]

I'm always trying to improve my finning. Lynn, can you find out why they wanted you to keep you fin tips down, and get back to me? Thanks. Maybe they don't want you kicking or distrubing the ceiling?

Thanks HenikBP, I couldn't explain it very well. Gentle sculling doesn't generate a lot of thrust that stirs up the pot, because your fins are almost feathered. You can even scull with just one fin, which is what I do sometimes turning corners if there's no room to kick with the other fin.

I think there are an infinte number of variations to all for the kicks described above, and each would be useful in certain situations.

 

[DiverLaura]

It was explained to me that they teach 'feet flat' to overcome those people who are bicycling and dropping their knees at same time. Divers who bicycle tend to point their toes (plantar flex) as opposed to dorsiflex. Maybe its one of those things that got started and pushed without needing to be except for with students who need a good way to remind themselves/biofeedback. Big wide flat fins also help with stability though, so there are reasons TO do it, and reasons not to. If someone has the tendency though to point their toes ALL the time, i imagine they'd get encouraged to keep their fin tips down.

I believe my fundies instructor wanted us to aim for 'fin tips up' slightly, the "bunny ears" when seen head on in pictures.

as i've worked on this, i actually noticed similar thing to you Harry, I actually aim my fin tips WAY up if i'm trying to turn in really tight quarters, either inside something or when i'm surrounded by a gaggle of divers and don't want to kick anyone/thing, and then do a micro helicopter which indeed could be described as a scull of sorts. This allows me to turn with almost zero impact, and i take up much less turning 'room' as opposed to with my XL jet fins flat...

Another place i noticed 'fin tips up' to be helpful was in cave class, where we were going down a slope of pretty good angle. If my fins had been 'flat' i'd actually have been dragging them along the cave bottom, but instead i angled my whole body head down a bit and had my fin tips up a bit so as to be 'in line' with the cave angle. (this is also where I learned you want minimal gas in your drysuit)

Also people trying to 'lock' their fin tips flat sometimes seem to have a bit of a harder time with some of the kicks. a lot of the propulsion techniques seem to be ANKLE ANKLE ANKLE... if you are locked flat you actually hinder that.

 

[FireInMyBones]

It was explained to me that they teach 'feet flat' to overcome those people who are bicycling and dropping their knees at same time. Divers who bicycle tend to point their toes (plantar flex) as opposed to dorsiflex...
...Also people trying to 'lock' their fin tips flat sometimes seem to have a bit of a harder time with some of the kicks. a lot of the propulsion techniques seem to be ANKLE ANKLE ANKLE... if you are locked flat you actually hinder that.

These are concepts I have to help several of my students deal with as they are learning to swim. I particularly find that older men (40+) have the most difficulty with locked ankles and a lack of plantarflexion.

You all have been very helpful.