Helicopter Turn Tips

[divad]

+1.

I'd add that if you practice the half-back-kick it can help improve your back kick as well.

+2
I'd add that I finally got the back kick by alternating between the R and L half-back-kick and then putting them together. For some reason I always had the back kick part of the helicopter turn.

 

[Doc Harry]

There's no need for 1/2 frog and 1/2 back kick.

A helicopter turn is best done with a sculling kick, with the tips pointed upwards.

With sculling, you can adjust your position easily, allowing you to truly pivot instead of swimming in an arc.

Also with sculling, if you start moving forward you can scull backwards to reset your position.

Both fins are moving together at the same time, doing the same motion, but you apply a little more pressure to on side or the other to pivot. With practice you can go forwards, backwards, and do helicopter turns, all with a sculling kick.

 

[divad]

There's no need for 1/2 frog and 1/2 back kick.

A helicopter turn is best done with a sculling kick, with the tips pointed upwards.

With sculling, you can adjust your position easily, allowing you to truly pivot instead of swimming in an arc.

Also with sculling, if you start moving forward you can scull backwards to reset your position.

It's the same thing no matter where you point your tips. Sculling is sculling.

 

[rjack321]

Exactly what is a "sculling kick"?

 

[Doc Harry]

It's the same thing no matter where you point your tips. Sculling is sculling.

Yes, but if your tips aren't pointed upwards you will stir up the silt.

Exactly what is a "sculling kick"?

Ooooh, hard to described. Ever tread water? Unless you do the dog paddle, your hands move in a figure-8 path with your hands almost feathered. Sculling. You apply a little bit of angle with your palm for some thrust. Your hands go out together and then come in together in a figure-8 path. Do that same motion with your fins.

 

[divad]

Yes, but if your tips aren't pointed upwards you will stir up the silt.

And, if in a wreck your tips are pointed upwards? My tips are nowhere near the bottom silt. They're about 24 inches further from the bottom silt than the rest of my body.
Maybe we're saying the same thing.

 

[Gombessa]

Yes, but if your tips aren't pointed upwards you will stir up the silt.

This statement is kind of lost on me. A frog kick is an anti-silting kick. A properly executed back kick is also an anti-silting kick. If pointing your fins back and executing a half frog kick, half back kick to helicopter turn, how does this become a silt-inducing kick?

I've always experienced fin-tips-upward as being more difficult to control--for me it results in unnecessary sculling to stay in position, provides a less stable platform and makes it difficult to get into an effective loading stroke for a proper back kick. I really don't know all the kicks out there, but I've always tried to avoid fin-tips-up. Maybe I'm misreading you, and what you really mean is fin-tips pointed back, with knees up?

 

[divad]

Yes, but if your tips aren't pointed upwards you will stir up the silt.



Ooooh, hard to described. Ever tread water? Unless you do the dog paddle, your hands move in a figure-8 path with your hands almost feathered. Sculling. You apply a little bit of angle with your palm for some thrust. Your hands go out together and then come in together in a figure-8 path. Do that same motion with your fins.

That seems to describe a constant backwards and forwards stroke to stay in the same place. Why would you want to do that under water when you could just stop moving?

 

[Doc Harry]

This statement is kind of lost on me. A frog kick is an anti-silting kick. A properly executed back kick is also an anti-silting kick. If pointing your fins back and executing a half frog kick, half back kick to helicopter turn, how does this become a silt-inducing kick?

I've always experienced fin-tips-upward as being more difficult to control--for me it results in unnecessary sculling to stay in position, provides a less stable platform and makes it difficult to get into an effective loading stroke for a proper back kick. I really don't know all the kicks out there, but I've always tried to avoid fin-tips-up. Maybe I'm misreading you, and what you really mean is fin-tips pointed back, with knees up?

To each his own. Normally my knees are bend and my fins are parallel to the floor in the usual anti-silting position. I scull with my tips pointed upwards. I don't see any problems relating to trim or balance with fins up. But I agree that pointing tips upwards makes it difficult to initiate a back kick.

That seems to describe a constant backwards and forwards stroke to stay in the same place. Why would you want to do that under water when you could just stop moving?

Because I'm talking about sculling to make a helicopter turn, not just stopping. You can, with aggressive sculling, move forwards and backwards a few inches with each scull. But that's just for practice to master the stroke. Normally a helicopter turn with sculling is a very gentle kick, much like the modified frog, just a little kick, just a little flutter at the ankle, just enough to do the job.

 

[TSandM]

Doc Harry, that sounds like something that works for you in open water, but I would not want to use that method of pivoting in a cave, where at best I could direct a jet of water to the ceiling and cause increased particulates, and at worst, I could actually damage the ceiling. Directly behind me seems like the best place for water to go, at least most of the time.