Headed For Tech...

[Lost Yooper]

To revise my first post a bit, for wet suit diving keep everything except the steel 104's and get double AL 80's instead. Everything else is the same. Those two links I gave you will point you in the right direction. Don't convulate yourself with unneeded junk and failure points or, in other words, KISS.
Absolute comfort is key, not the number of dives IMO. Baby step your way into more task loading. The only difference between tech diving and recreational diving is there are more unbreakable rules that if broken will result in death. Learn the rules and don't break them or else you'll die. It's that simple.

Have fun.

 

[bridgenet]

SARdvr:

Sherwood Maximus sounds like the regulator of choice. I've heard that the Viper TEC has a tendency to free flow as I was leaning that way initially.

devjr:

, well only slightly biased on this thread ;-)... At least you guys aren't getting a commision on the equipment. With regards to beers we will be having a few. Taking 2 weeks in August, one on a Liveaboard and the other for some heavy training. Best of both worlds... January did St. Lucia and St. John. Any suggestions on a Liveaboard? Space is available on Peter Hughes (Turks and Provo), Carribean Explorer (Saba, St. Kitts), and Cuan's Law (BVI, Aggressor fleet is booked). I'll probably start a thread on this one if I can't find much via the Search Engine. Week after that Cayman, Bonaire, or Cozemel... You mentioned the Apollo fins, what do you think of Mares Volo or Dacor Tiger? I'll look at the Apollo, the fins I had in January were horrible and good fins are a definite this time around.

PS: A handhold dive on the Andrea Doria in 2-3 years is a possibility ...

100-days-a-year:

Thanks for the input. We should have about 100 dives under our belt by the end of August. Did about 40 in January and still getting the water out of our ears ;-)...

Lost Yopper:

Thank you ... What do you think about the Sherwood regulator that the others mentioned? Like the idea of the doubles... I have to smile at your KISS comment, I'm always getting yelled at for saying the same thing ...

Warhammer:

We're not crazy, well not totally... We are both engineers that enjoy both doing things and learning new things. Figure if I am over-trained a bit it might keep me alive someday. I would rather push myself and enjoy some new experiences while having my hand-held by an instructor, then back off and practice at a safer level. We will take time to smell the roses, afterall we are newlyweds ;-)...

 

[SARdvr]

Originally posted by bridgenet
SARdvr:

Sherwood Maximus sounds like the regulator of choice. I've heard that the Viper TEC has a tendency to free flow as I was leaning that way initially.

devjr:

, well only slightly biased on this thread ;-)... At least you guys aren't getting a commision on the equipment. With regards to beers we will be having a few. Taking 2 weeks in August, one on a Liveaboard and the other for some heavy training. Best of both worlds... January did St. Lucia and St. John. Any suggestions on a Liveaboard? Space is available on Peter Hughes (Turks and Provo), Carribean Explorer (Saba, St. Kitts), and Cuan's Law (BVI, Aggressor fleet is booked). I'll probably start a thread on this one if I can't find much via the Search Engine. Week after that Cayman, Bonaire, or Cozemel... You mentioned the Apollo fins, what do you think of Mares Volo or Dacor Tiger? I'll look at the Apollo, the fins I had in January were horrible and good fins are a definite this time around.

PS: A handhold dive on the Andrea Doria in 2-3 years is a possibility ...

100-days-a-year:

Thanks for the input. We should have about 100 dives under our belt by the end of August. Did about 40 in January and still getting the water out of our ears ;-)...

Lost Yopper:

Thank you ... What do you think about the Sherwood regulator that the others mentioned? Like the idea of the doubles... I have to smile at your KISS comment, I'm always getting yelled at for saying the same thing ...

Warhammer:

We're not crazy, well not totally... We are both engineers that enjoy both doing things and learning new things. Figure if I am over-trained a bit it might keep me alive someday. I would rather push myself and enjoy some new experiences while having my hand-held by an instructor, then back off and practice at a safer level. We will take time to smell the roses, afterall we are newlyweds ;-)...

Hey anytime, Dive on! As for the Dacor Tiger fins, I don't suggest them. I dove with an Naval Officer that used them once and broke his left fin in half. If you use fins hard at all then don't buy the Tigers! This guy puts them to the ultimate diving test, and they failed hardcore! KISS with your fins! No need for fancy split fin/force fin beat around the bush bull dookie. You want the best fin? Get your hands on the fins that are used by the Military, BUD/S training, and the special forces. Those are the most rugged, simple-stupid fins there are! And anyone who says they can move faster in some type of fancy fin I encourage to come race me! You said it yourself, KISS! Well, it's about that time for me to foxtrot oscar to bed so we'll catch you fellas in the deep end. Later.

 

[Iguana Don]

#1) Get a regulator that can be serviced anywhere in the world. That leaves about 3 options, Posiedon, ScubaPro & Apeks.

#2) Check out the "Tech" boards and see what they are using.

#3) Although Sherwood does make fine equipment, if you are serious about getting into technical diving you will change them out.

#4) B/P and wings, no questions asked, the only way to fly underwater.

#5) Get lots of experience before making the junp into the advanced stages of diving. Enjoy the sights that you have trained for and get lots of experience.

No, this is not unbiased info and no, flame protection is not on.

ID

 

[Lost Yooper]

I'm sure the Sherwood's are all right, but with the awesome track record of the Apeks regs and decent price, I can't really find a reason to recommend any other reg (except for Poseidon's in really cold water).
There is a valid arguement for world wide servicability for which Scuba Pro probably beats all, but IMO the extreme cost of SP's regs rules them out. I can darn near buy two Zeagles/Apeks for the price of a G500 and get as good to better performance and reliability.
A good baby step into tech diving is to put an H-valve on your single tank and get used to the hose routing for a while. When you switch to doubles, the routing staying the same. Pick yourself up an EE reel and Halcyon lift bag and start playing with that stuff. Another thing would be to sling a stage or deco bottle under your left arm and practice with all that.
The absolute first thing (IMO) to get is the BP, harness, and wing from Halcyon. Everything evolves around that.

I'm just a diver, so there's no economic bias here either. Good luck.

 

[devjr]

As you can see, the subject of dive equipment is highly controversial, even partisan with factions almost like religious cults. One of your first decisions has to do with basic mechanics. The tech divers tend towards DIN(Deutsche Industrie Normen), a European concept which has gained some acceptance in America. You've probably seen these regulator attachments; they employ a screw in "captured" connector as distinct from the traditional yoke clamp employed widely throughout the US. I use the yoke type on my diving gear and compressors but if I was just starting out I might well decide to go with the DIN. If you use DIN it would be necessary to buy a yoke adapter, however, and carry this on your travels. Make this decision before purchasing a regulator bearing in mind that only certain regulators use this type of connector or can be backfitted with this connector.

Most brand name regulators are capable of doing more than you are. They can go deeper, breath faster, and stand up to more abuse than the diver. I'm not saying the selection of regulator is incidental, only that the differences are not likely to be great enough to impact the style of diving being done on any particular day. The only exception is extreme cold weather performance. If this is contemplated, stay your decision until you have reviewed numerous facts and opinions.

The selection of BC is not so easy to generalize. It is apparent that the BC design can have a material impact on the comfort and safety of the dive. The variation seen in these devices is real, not cosmetic. However, the ultimate decision involves trade offs of utility and cost. First, decide what type of diving is involved. Do you need D rings, pockets, moderate or huge lift, how does the BC affect surface swimming? How secure is the tank attachment? How complex is donning? Do you need a BC which can float you head up and substitute for a lifejacket or do you tend to something which leaves the front unobstructed for cocking a speargun and hanging numerous accessories, hoses, lights, ponies and the like. Do you feel that a soft back or hard back is more versatile for packing, travel, tropical, etc and what about the stability tradeoff? Is a dump valve critical to your use? How about integrated weights? Do you like a compact single bladder or bulky double bladder? There are easy answers available to these hard questions, all you have to do is ask(G). It's all written down in someone's favorite psalm. Personally, I own a Beauchat Masterlift and a Seaquest 3 Dimension. The Dimension is not available anymore but it is a back mounted softpac with an elaborate web system including retractors for the air bladder. That thing is really nice, fits like a glove but has no pockets which can be a nuisance. The Masterlift is a common "poodle" vest with good shoulder adjustment, two pockets, comfortable but sometimes rides up. There is no crotch strap on either. The Master is simpler and quicker to don, the Dimension is more comfortable. Both are single bladder. I use either on occasion.

To gain perspective, I am not a "technical" diver, I am a freediver and only an occasional SCUBA diver. I do not dive in ice. My SCUBA diving is mostly on wrecks to about 100 feet. My rigging is simple, reflecting what I am comfortable with, having first donned an Aqualung in 1955 at the age of 14. I use a single HP tank with Scubapro reg or my old Navy triples with double hose reg depending on my mood. Either way, no ponies or octopus. I rarely carry a light except for lobster dives. I always carry a speargun, knife and stringer, SPG, D meter, wear a wetsuit, weight belt, snorkel, frameless mask and something new, Apollo fins. I often dive solo. I do not suggest you follow any of these practices or opinions, only gain insight.

Starting a thread referencing the travel/tour question is a good idea.

 

[BetterLateThannever]

devjr,

Your mention of free diving prompts me to ask something I have been wondering about for a while now; Why? I mean, I just don't get it. What's the thrill?

As I understand it free diving is just about holding your breath rather than breathing as you would with scuba gear. Let's say for the sake of argument that you have lungs like..oh, I don't know....TARZAN...what are you looking at maybe 5 minutes bottom time.

Speaking for myself, just the skin diving portion of the OW cert training seemed like a pain in the a**.

Feel free to enlighten me.

Jimbo

 

[Green_Manelishi]

Bridgenet,

forgive my blunt-ness but that is my nature.

1) "unbiased" and "opinion" are mutually exclusive
terms.

2) you are moving too fast. OW ---> Tech in one year
is an invitation to a funeral

3) if you dive exclusively on vaca and not around
your own area then you might as well forget "tech"
because it demands constant practice, diving and refine-
ment or you'll be dead.

4) forget the Sherwood for high-intensity diving. As some
others said you want Apeks, SP, etc.

5) backplate and wing are the only way to dive when you are
carrying beaucoup gear

Those are my VERY biased opinions supported by facts.

 

[devjr]

The sport of diving started out as freediving, then later, SCUBA. Most of my generation and the one before started diving with goggles or mask and fins. The was no SCUBA instruction available but it really didn't matter. We were already divers and reading a pampflet "Diving with the Aqualung", was usually sufficient to get us started.


Only certain types of swimmers liked to swim underwater but those that did, once they put on one of the newfangled masks, often became hooked. They were also natural born hunters and this became apparent. Almost all divers then were soon spearfishermen. The conversion was spiritual and had to do with the love of the underwater world and the thrill of descending into the magic world. The mystical connection between the hunter and the hunted developed in subtle ways. It was very untechnical.

Because freediving is spiritual it is difficult to convey or explain. The selectivity is mental and depends greatly on your beginnings and expectations.

The tank diver or "bubble butt" as they are sometimes called, is most familiar with his natural sight picture which is primarily the bottom or elevated portions thereof. The freediver views the underwater scene from above and, diving, surveys the entire water column, repeatedly. Thus, the bottom dweller is more like a bear, snuffling, snorting and searching; a surface swimmer is more like a hawk, able to swoop down with virtual silence. If you really like the water, try freediving while cooking off. The tanker gets to spend a half hour on the bottom, returns to the boat, eats and sleeps. The freediver will often stay in the water for hours seeing all kinds of things the tanker missed and may never see in his lifetime. Mantas, mola mola, sharks, game fish, exotic invertebrates; literally all kinds of stuff. He can check the boat bottom and prop while he's at it(G).

Many freedivers, including myself, never really liked SCUBA diving. It was more of a tool or necessity for certain things. However, I have put in many hours on SCUBA, primarily wreck diving. I do enjoy that. Thirty years ago, my buds and I salvaged a Civil War wreck, a no no today. A few years later, I bought my own boat and returned to a mix of freediving and SCUBA. Some things, like spearing game fish, are best done freediving. I have speared game like tuna and king mackeral. Flounder hunting is mostly a SCUBA thing. For funsies on a slow day, we would salvage a boat load of lost fishing gear and anchors. Any excuse to go under.

I have trained a few SCUBA divers in reverse, so to speak, and taught them freediving. The ones that went on to become really expert in freediving and spearfishing were what I would call "outdoor" types, deer hunters and marksmen, one was a champion skeetshooter. The very best bluewater hunters that I have met could freedive to 80 feet, were deadly accurate killers, rugged individualists who yet had an undefinable spiritual quality, a real respect for conservation and the environment, almost fatalistic or mystical. Breath hold champions(there are many such contests) practice forms of self control that have aspects even I am not attuned to. Some freedivers look like athletes, some do not. However, the mental qualities are shared by most.

There are cultural aspects to diving. In Europe, especially Spain and Italy, record holding freedivers and champion spearfishermen are highly respected, even revered. The USA turned away from this for complex reasons which I can't go in to.

Later.

 

[Lost Yooper]

I kind of misread your original post as I assumed you had been diving for a fair amount of time. I agree with GM that one year isn't likely to be enough time to get really comfortable. You'd have to be diving a ton and have started off with the right gear right off the bat so to be completely familiar and comfortable with it and ready to tackle more complicated diving. Not likely to happen.
Get the right gear (already discussed) and take a couple seasons diving a lot and getting thoroughly familiar with it all. Good "tech" gear doesn't make one a "tech" diver, but is a basis to start from. If you end up tech diving you have the basis to start from, but if you don't you still have great gear.
Some people get more comfortable faster than others so I wouldn't put a number of dives into the equation. Some people never seem to get good enough for higher stress diving, so go figure.

Good Luck.