Have training standards "slipped"?

[MikeFerrara]

You've crossed a line here - NDL means just that. The recreational standard of not entering NDL is paramount.

No, it's not that line. It's a way of multi-level diving by depth averaging in your head. It's not that difficult.

"min deco" more or less just refers to the ascent that they teach for a dive within the NDL. I don't think I worded that very well but, to Dan's point, it is NOT a dive with a mandatory decompression obligation or virtual overhead. Depth averaging is how they accomplish the multilevel part.

I think you guys should teach students that you can clear a deco obligation on a well planned multi-level dive. You're not going to DIE with 2 minutes of deco which will clear when you spend the remainder of your dive in a nicely curving profile.

They need to be able to surface if it becomes inconvenient to do the nicely curving ascent.

When your main backup plan is to head for the surface, it's best to keep the inert gas loads down so you can pop up when you want. They have to learn to control their position in the water before they can do any nice curving ascents.

 

[The Chairman]

When a student shows up with an unfamiliar computer, how do you teach him how it works?

So instructing is ALL ABOUT THE BUTTONS and not how to use that valuable info in your hands? I give up. If you can't see what needs to be taught to a diver using a computer, then PLEASE don't try. Tell them you use it as a hammer to ward off sharks or something. The same goes for teaching how to use a BC, a regulator, a weight belt, a mask or even fins.

As for the unfamiliar dive computer: I LEARN IT. Just as I would with any unfamiliar piece of gear. Do you honestly try to teach a student diving gear you don't understand?

 

[The Chairman]

...I suppose memorizing the no-deco limits would be too much to ask?

First: Dive computers don't get narced.
Second: This is your third dive of the day and you are an "I" diver. Please rattle those NDLs off for us.

 

[SparticleBrane]

First: Dive computers don't get narced.
Second: This is your third dive of the day and you are an "I" diver. Please rattle those NDLs off for us.

If it's a later dive, glance at the tables and look at your NDLs for the planned depth and perhaps the next group deepest. If you managed to go 30ft deeper than you planned you weren't paying attention.

 

[underwasser bolt]

So instructing is ALL ABOUT THE BUTTONS and not how to use that valuable info in your hands? I give up. If you can't see what needs to be taught to a diver using a computer, then PLEASE don't try. The same goes for teaching how to use a BC, a regulator, a weight belt, a mask or even fins.

As for the unfamiliar dive computer: I LEARN IT. Just as I would with any unfamiliar piece of gear.

Better give up. My son is doing SDI certification; no form of tables are taught or even included in the basic student book package. he has finished his confined water phase. He is supposed to use a computer for his OW, but has yet to even SEE a computer. This is out of control. I am glad I will be there for his OW, and after he gets his c-card I guess I will teach him how to dive. I feel like i just paid for a c-card.

 

[The Chairman]

If you managed to go 30ft deeper than you planned you weren't paying attention.

No, YOU weren't paying attention. Dive Masters can give you the wrong data. This one DID.

 

[SparticleBrane]

As for the unfamiliar dive computer: I LEARN IT. Just as I would with any unfamiliar piece of gear. Do you honestly try to teach a student diving gear you don't understand?

No, but I also don't hold their hand.
If they get to the point of "I can't find this in the manual and I can't find it online" then sure, I'll be more than willing to help them out. Otherwise, I'm just impeding them learning the lesson of self-sufficiency.

 

[The Chairman]

Better give up.

Report the instructor. Don't blame the agency. Don't expect me to not teach that portion of the class.

 

[SparticleBrane]

No, YOU weren't paying attention. Dive Masters can give you the wrong data. This one DID.

...I don't get your point. I sounds as if we're arguing the same thing. :mooner:
I'm saying that on the descent, if the diver is 30ft deeper than they thought, they weren't paying attention. All I'm saying.

 

[The Chairman]

No, but I also don't hold their hand.
If they get to the point of "I can't find this in the manual and I can't find it online" then sure, I'll be more than willing to help them out. Otherwise, I'm just impeding them learning the lesson of self-sufficiency.

You're an instructor? You don't teach them about ascent rates, temps and all the other infor contained in a dive computer? If all computers are to you is pushing a bunch of buttons, I would trade it for a pretty shell. Having all that data at their fingertips and not teaching them how to use it seems pretty silly.