Have training standards "slipped"?

[MikeFerrara]

IF you use them. You do take them on the dive with you, right?

That's silly. Why would you need to take them on the dive with you? I use software on a palm pilot to plan some dives but I don't take the palm pilot on the dive with me.

 

[Bob]

Wow, it seems like there is a lot of animosity towards learning/teaching tables. It's the only thing I know, and will be using tables until I can afford a computer. I'm surprised that anyone wouldn't want their students to understand how to use the tables. And this pounding of your chests about how you have a bunch of computers as back ups. It must be nice, and you must have students with a crapload of disposable income. Interesting.

Bookboarder,
Your attitude is most refreshing, please hold on to it. I teach the Navy/NAUI tables to ever OW class I teach. It sure doesn't hurt to know how to work the tables, even if you're going to dive a computer, and the majority of my students can't afford a computer right away. So guess what they use, their NAUI tables. BTW Walter is right, pick one table and use it. The PADI tables have twice as many pressure groups as the NAUI tables, and the pressure groups don't correspond Enjoy your diving. almtree: Bob

 

[MikeFerrara]

I actually like having the tables, do carry them as backup, since I already wear a BT/depth watch.

I keep a palm pilot with decompression software in my bag and I carry tables for reference or when the batteries die in the palm. For the majority of the dives that I do, I don't need either the palm or the tables.

I don't know what the tables cost me, I sort of collected them over the year. The palm pilot was about $80 and you can get software for free.

 

[The Chairman]

Hi Red. My Name is Mike. Now, you've met one.

One out of 80,000 ain't bad odds! However the typical diver would benefit GREATLY by learning how to dive with a PC rather than just following Joe Divemaster as they currently do.

Next we'll hear that you are not a real DRIVER unless you learned on a standard transmission FIRST.

It reminds me of a saying back when DOS was king: Real programmers use "copycon".

I was told recently, that they don't use slide rules to fly the shuttle anymore. WHAT ARE THEY THINKING???

 

[MikeFerrara]

Oh, be fair now. Most of those developing nation dives are multi level. What is the new diver going to do with his table on a dive with a max depth of 100 feet, run time 45 minutes? That's why you need a computer.

No, the new diver should think twice about doing trust-me dives. I can do a 100 ft dive with a run-time of a LOT longer than 45 minutes without the computer or the DM. If the new divers kept his/her diving within limits that they understand, then they wouldn't need the computer or the DM either.

 

[SparticleBrane]

So do regulators and BCs. What a dangerous concept: learn how to use your Scuba Gear with no instructor!

No need to cover ascent rates, deep stops precautionary stops and the like. "You just read them thar instructions, kiddies! No need for no steenkeeng instructor to help you use them thar tools!"

BCs require good technique to really work properly (I'm not talking your run of the mill up and down usage, I mean good, perfect technique). This takes practice, experience, and time in the water.
Regulators, I personally feel, are a bit more intricate than computers if you are really in tune with your gear. Not in terms of technology (obviously computers are technologically more intricate) but in terms of usage. Dive your regs long enough and you can start to tell when they're out of tune, or perhaps if you don't have them set just right. They also change over time.

Computers, on the other hand, operate by button pushing and (usually) automagically do their thing. They don't take a lot of practice, experience, or time in the water to operate. They do what they're told to do by the user or by the programming. They shouldn't change over time like regs (if they do, something is wrong).

I'm sure you could teach good 'button pushing' technique if you wanted...


Red -- Hi, I'm Charles. Now you've met 2.

 

[The Chairman]

That's silly. Why would you need to take them on the dive with you? I use software on a palm pilot to plan some dives but I don't take the palm pilot on the dive with me.

Why would you NOT take them? Dive masters lie! If I plan a dive to 70 fsw because the dive master told me that I would need a shovel to get any deeper, what do I do when I find that I am at 99fsw? Why, I consult my tables, which happen to be waterproof, and if they are NAUI tables, I can even write my intended profile (including correction) on the back. Caca happens!

 

[TheRedHead]

Hi Red. My Name is Mike. Now, you've met one.

Mike, we both know that you don't need a dive computer or tables to do a simple recreational dive. There are many divers here that don't. I'm talking about random divers on dive boats. If they run into a situation that is outside of their tables, they will just shuck them and follow the DM, 100% of the time. That has been my experience wandering around the Caribbean diving with strangers. Hell, I've witnessed only a couple of divers ever talk planning, and many of them very experienced divers. It's very discouraging.

With minimum deco, you don't need either, but only GUE teaches that.

 

[SparticleBrane]

Why would you NOT take them? Dive masters lie! If I plan a dive to 70 fsw because the dive master told me that I would need a shovel to get any deeper, what do I do when I find that I am at 99fsw? Why, I consult my tables, which happen to be waterproof, and if they are NAUI tables, I can even write my intended profile (including correction) on the back. Caca happens!

...I suppose memorizing the no-deco limits would be too much to ask?

 

[daniel f aleman]

With minimum deco, you don't need either, but only GUE teaches that.

You've crossed a line here - NDL means just that. The recreational standard of not entering NDL is paramount.

And, we care, and correctly teach, those divers of whom we can...