Have training standards "slipped"?

[matt_w]

This is probally a bad idea to post, since I will be jinxing myself. I beleive the last time I had a problem with my computer was 1993 when i realized it was not reading depth correctly.

I have taken a few breaks in the middle here but that was still a few hundred dives ago. I would still never go anywhere without my tables but I have been considering going with a backup computer stuffed in my bc pocket. I would probally never remember to set the mix right, of course that is usually a once a trip change for me so i might be able to manage it.

I do generally stay aware enough about my dive profile that I could schedule a repetitive dive with tables if my computer failed. Just a habit for me to make a mental note on max depth, bottom time and SI. I suppose wether or not I would figure out my next dive on tables after a computer failure would be highly dependent on the circumstance.

 

[DivingsInMyBlood]

Wow, it seems like there is a lot of animosity towards learning/teaching tables. It's the only thing I know, and will be using tables until I can afford a computer. I'm surprised that anyone wouldn't want their students to understand how to use the tables. And this pounding of your chests about how you have a bunch of computers as back ups. It must be nice, and you must have students with a crapload of disposable income. Interesting.

I completely agree with you. Im taking my ow class starting this weekend and personally i would be miffed if i were not taught the tables, i like to see it all in front of my eyes and love to learn and understand fully what im doing (tables). I dont have an overflow of money spilling out of my pockets to buy a dive computer when i finish the course. So untill i have the money i will be diving by the tables for quite a while.

 

[Mako Mark]

It actually staggers me how few recreational divers have dive tables and how few of them actually take them in the water. They just put blind faith in minimum wage divemasters in developing nations that didnt go to high school.

 

[TheRedHead]

It actually staggers me how few recreational divers have dive tables and how few of them actually take them in the water. They just put blind faith in minimum wage divemasters in developing nations that didnt go to high school.

Oh, be fair now. Most of those developing nation dives are multi level. What is the new diver going to do with his table on a dive with a max depth of 100 feet, run time 45 minutes? That's why you need a computer.

 

[SparticleBrane]

That's about as dangerous statement as I have ever heard. You are actually advocating to NOT TEACH them how to use the very tool they are going to be diving with and teach them the tool that very few actually use???

No, what I'm advocating is an underlying foundation for how all this stuff came about. Start teaching the underlying concepts rather than just how to do something, and people will understand it better than just the how.
If someone understands the ideas behind how the tables were formulated and what they represent, they should not have to have an open water scuba instructor teach them how to use a computer. They have user manuals supplied with computers yes? If not, you can go online and get it. They're not the world's most difficult thing to operate. For most you just strap them on and go...maybe hit a button a few times to switch it to nitrox.

Saying that someone can't figure out how to use a computer without an open water instructor is a bit over the top.

 

[1_T_Submariner]

Oh, be fair now. Most of those developing nation dives are multi level. What is the new diver going to do with his table on a dive with a max depth of 100 feet, run time 45 minutes? That's why you need a computer.

I agree.I think you either need to pick tables or the computer. I tried backing up my computer with tables but, I blew the tables really bad my example is a dive to 85 feet with a BT of 92 minutes. Average depth was like 40 feet.

 

[agilis]

Of course I use the tables. I use my own modified version, more conservative than any of the published tables, designed in accordance with DAN recommendations. My dives are planned, or outlined, in conjunction with my tables.
I have a very basic small computer I bought last year because some resort destinations I visit require one. I use it only to see how it compares to the tables. It's generally more permissive. In any case, it uses a battery, and, like my watch, I prefer solid mechanical things. My only computer is, in effect, a back-up computer.
Anyone who can't use the tables should not be certified and should not be diving outside a training situation.

Excessive reliance on appliances reminds me of a recent fishing trip I took with two former students of mine, both well educated professionals in their late 20s. I drove up to the lake, and because I was a little tired, I asked if one of them would mind driving back. The first said "no problem", and jumped into the driver's seat. A look of bewilderment crossed his face. He couldn't drive the Honda's stick shift. Neither could the other guy. A couple of little old ladies, pardon the expression.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I do this in the classroom, BEFORE they get into the water. Don't blame the standards here.

Why teach tables at all?

To give the student the background so that they can make the choice rather than you making it for them?

They are only needed by a small percentage of tech divers and yet most agencies, as well as old time instructors consider them the Holy Grail of diving.

There is nothing holy about dive tables as far as I know. Tables are needed by almost everyone who chooses to plan a dive without a computer. being one of the fortunate ones who learned tables I can use either one I want.

That's like forcing modern physicists to use sliderules instead of calculators.

No it isn't. Teaching tables doesn't force them to do anything. They end up with a choice. A choice that lets them do a lot of diving with a table that costs a few bucks at most (probably get one for free online someplace).

Any good physicists could probably do plenty of arithmetic and some pretty impressive mathematics...in their head, using paper and pencil, with a calculator, or just write their own program to do it for them on the platform of their choice. I'll bet they are all glad that you weren't there to take away their paper and pencil. LOL

 

[Walter]

Yep, I have a set of NAUI and PADI dive tables that I bring on every dive. So far, so good.

Nope. Pick a set of tables and file the other set away. NAUI & PADI dive tables are not interchangable. You cannot switch back and forth between them. A letter group G on the NAUI tables does not mean the same thing as a letter group G on the PADI tables. For single dives, the NAUI tables are slightly more conservative than the PADI tables. For repetitive dives, the NAUI tables are quite a bit more conservative than the PADI tables. So choose a conservative approach and use the NAUI tables or a liberal approach and use the PADI tables, but don't carry both.

 

[Walter]

Oh, be fair now. Most of those developing nation dives are multi level. What is the new diver going to do with his table on a dive with a max depth of 100 feet, run time 45 minutes? That's why you need a computer.

No. That's why you want a computer. That's why I use a computer. I don't need a computer, I can surface with an 18 minute bottom time on a 100 ft dive.