Have training standards "slipped"?

[SparticleBrane]

Not an instructor and don't intend to be one.
Having all that data at their fingertips and not having the personal motivation to read the stinkin' manual about the $600 electronic toy they bought is ridiculous. They shouldn't have to have someone hold their hand to tell them how to use it.

 

[The Chairman]

...I don't get your point. I sounds as if we're arguing the same thing. :mooner:
I'm saying that on the descent, if the diver is 30ft deeper than they thought, they weren't paying attention. All I'm saying.

Only if you want to see the reef, only if you want to see the reef.

It sounds as if you dive just to perform some skills underwater. I dive to look at all the pretty fishies. If my profile changes, I want to be able to ADAPT. Swimming 30 ft over the reef in 25 ft of vis just doesn't do a lot for me.

 

[The Chairman]

Not an instructor and don't intend to be one.
Having all that data at their fingertips and not having the personal motivation to read the stinkin' manual about the $600 electronic toy they bought is ridiculous. They shouldn't have to have someone hold their hand to tell them how to use it.

So, all students should be able to INTERPRET the data at their fingertips without instruction? That's holding their hand? I am gratified with the first statement in your post.

 

[SparticleBrane]

I'm there to see the pretty fishies too.
I agree that you want to be able to adapt. You'll note I also never argued against bringing tables with you...just said that it might be a good idea to memorize your NDLs. Could save you from having to break out the tables once you're down there. Nothing more.

 

[MikeFerrara]

Stop beating around the bush Mike, you know you want to say it, so say it, stop waiting for someone to drag it out of you....

You too RedHead, explain the secret handshake to the board

You might have lost me here. If you are talking about how I do multilevel dives without a computer and why I do it that way, I've gone pretty far into that in other threads. For this thread, we don't need that.

Where are divers doing all these multilevel dives where they need comuters? divers dive around home, never need one and then they go on vacation and all of a sudden they need one. If you ask me, the computer is needed for those dives because the dive plan is so hosed up. LOL

They take these people to 100+ for just a couple of minutes...barely enough time to see or do anything. Then they start working their way up the reef and end up with only a little NDL time and usually not enough reserve gas.

If they had cut off the deepest part of the dive, they could have had more of everything they went there for and more margine AND had plenty of bottom time even if they were planning based on a square profile. That short, hardly worth the bother deep bounce that they aren't really trained or equiped for is what's messing everything up for them.

Others can dive how they want but I wouldn't buy a computer just so I could dive a plan that I think is goofy anyway.

 

[SparticleBrane]

So, all students should be able to INTERPRET the data at their fingertips without instruction? That's holding their hand? I am gratified with the first statement in your post.

If they've been taught basic diving concepts and have read the manual, yes.

"Depth" -- self explanatory
"NDL time remaining" -- if they understand the concept of an NDL then they should be able to figure this out, even if they've never seen the computer before.
"average depth" -- self explanatory
"temperature" -- this is starting to get redundant...

 

[MikeFerrara]

As for the unfamiliar dive computer: I LEARN IT. Just as I would with any unfamiliar piece of gear.

But don't you have to go to an instructor to learn it?

 

[Walter]

So instructing is ALL ABOUT THE BUTTONS and not how to use that valuable info in your hands? I give up. If you can't see what needs to be taught to a diver using a computer, then PLEASE don't try. Tell them you use it as a hammer to ward off sharks or something. The same goes for teaching how to use a BC, a regulator, a weight belt, a mask or even fins.

As for the unfamiliar dive computer: I LEARN IT. Just as I would with any unfamiliar piece of gear. Do you honestly try to teach a student diving gear you don't understand?

The basic concept of computers, what they do and how to use the information is nothing new. It's not something SDI introduced in their classses. All the agencies have been teaching this since long before SDI (or TDI, for that matter) existed. It's been taught along with the tables.

As for teaching a student gear with which you are unfamiliar, we agree. You can't teach it. Yes, you can learn it, but why build in an extra step. There's nothing complicated about computer manuals. You teach them an Oceanic, they decide they don't like it and buy a Sunto. Are they going to come back to you or are they going to read the book? I hope they read the book. They don't need us for this.

 

[The Chairman]

But don't you have to go to an instructor to learn it?

Twist it all you want Mike. I guess all you teach is button pushing.

 

[The Chairman]

The basic concept of computers, what they do and how to use the information is nothing new. It's not something SDI introduced in their classses. All the agencies have been teaching this since long before SDI (or TDI, for that matter) existed. It's been taught along with the tables.

No, it hasn't. But again, if you don't understand the difference, please don't try to teach it.