Has anyone ever failed a GUE class?

[C Dub]

Neither of those links discusses the class of six. Although you have made me think that maybe we should include it, in the inventory, just for the sake of comparison. (Not really <g>)

Anyhoo, when you find it, remember, there are multiple versions to any story. Two things I will say 1)the in-water time reported was accurate and 2)I didn't get *mad* about the class until the instructor started posting in that thread and saying some of the things that he did. I felt it was unprofessional, especially when only two of the students were active in the thread.

This is one of the days I miss TS&M. She and Peter were there for that class and if it weren't for her and one of my classmates, I'm not sure I'd have continued on with GUE. In the end it was worth it, and I do not regret a thing - what happened in that class was incredibly motivating. Everything that followed that class started out about proving someone else wrong, but evolved into me pushing myself the next level.

Kate - was that the thread here on SB, called something like "the biggest fundies class ever??"

 

[lv2dive]

Good guess, but no. It was on Scubaboard, however, or I wouldn't have referenced it.

Kate - was that the thread here on SB, called something like "the biggest fundies class ever??"

 

[lv2dive]

Brian, if you wouldn't mind too terribly, would you please consider NOT lumping actual failures in with provisionals? Coming from someone who has received both, I can assure anyone that they feel VERY different.

Unless by fail you actually MEAN fail, not provisional, which I suppose is possible beyond fundies, as well.

please don't lump provisionals

no you can provisional other classes. i believe lynne got a very strict provisional in her cave class with david and he didnt outright fail her. but what he did say was she couldn't run off to mexico to complete it
people have failed gue classes from fundies all the way up

 

[CptTightPants21]

For those that just love 500 post threads.....
My Venture into GUE - Another view

 

[VR78]

Well I agree that a "provisional" IS technically a failure: one's attempt at passing was not successful and will remain such unless one takes certain prescribed remediation steps. The system therefore IS binary but allows for various remediation strategies.

 

[boulderjohn]

I was a career educator, including time spent as a curriculum development specialist and a staff developer for one of the largest school districts in America. After leaving pubic education, I was the Director of Curriculum and Instruction for an online education company and the Executive Director of Curriculum for the largest online curriculum company. I also did two research projects in which I analyzed the reasons for high failure rates in courses. I have some thoughts I could share on the theoretical relationship between classes and the people who fail them. I will talk primarily about generic educational beliefs, and sometimes comment on how they relate to scuba.

In normal education, one critical reason for failure is student motivation. They don't want to be there; they don't want to take the class; they have better things to do (like drugs and alcohol). This is rarely an issue in scuba, and it is especially rare for advanced scuba classes.

Another important reason is a lack of prerequisite skills on the part of the student. The student lacks the educational background necessary to complete the course successfully. Most bodies of education try to solve that problem by having a clear hierarchy of classes--students do not go directly from Algebra I to Calculus. Most scuba agencies usually have a similar hierarchy (although some are criticized for this). In any event, it is critical for an educational organization to have a screening process in place so that students do not waste time and money enrolling in a course they have no chance of passing from the start.

A truly critical factor is curriculum design. Some of the key ideas here are instructional focus, sequencing, transfer, transfer load, scaffolding, and realistic expectations.

• Instructional Focus: A proper curriculum makes sure that the spotlight on instruction is on the most important learning. Time spent on unnecessary concepts and skills detracts from the ability to learn the most important concepts and skills. You would be shocked the degree to which analyses of standard curricula reveal that the courses emphasize trivia and in comparison barely touch on the core content.
• Sequencing, transfer, transfer load, and scaffolding: Learning occurs when old learning is applied to new situations (transfer). Poor curriculum design does not sequence learning properly to create that step by step approach. Transfer load is the "gap" between the old learning and the new learning--too small, and no learning takes place; too great and the student will be unable to bridge that gap. Students need the scaffolding help of the curriculum design and the instructor to make the connection. In OW classes, you see it done properly in the sequence of partial mask flood - mask flood - mask removal - mask replacement - no mask swim. In my own first technical instruction, we were expected to do decompression stops in horizontal trim while facing a teammate before being taught either back kicking or helicopter turns--an example of poor sequencing creating too great of a transfer load for the student to succeed.
• Realistic expectations: This may seem obvious, but a course should not ask student to learn more than is reasonably possible in the amount of time given. I was asked to analyze a high school online program with a high failure rate, and I was aghast at what was expected. In one example, English students were to complete 23 full length essays in a 15 week course, in addition to all the reading and other work they were doing. If course expectations are more than a motivated student with the proper prerequisite skills can reasonably accomplish in the amount of time given for the course, then the student will likely fail.

In contrast to what has been believed for years, recent research indicates that the primary factor in student success is the skill of the instructor. It is not just skill; it is also attitude. Research indicates that teachers who truly believe that it is their duty to do all they can to make students succeed by analyzing their problems and leading them to that success end up with far better results than teachers who believe the key to success lies with the student alone, and the difference is enormous. As an example in scuba, I know an instructor who has two different instructional approaches when teaching OW students and when teaching tech students. With tech students, he abandons the OW approach (see mask sequence above), which he calls "holding their hands." He does not fully explain procedures, and he does not demonstrate most of them. Other people would argue that what he calls "holding their hands" is more properly called "good instructional strategies." He sees his role in the tech classes as an evaluator of learning progress more than as a teacher of that learning progress.

 

[LiteHedded]

Brian, if you wouldn't mind too terribly, would you please consider NOT lumping actual failures in with provisionals? Coming from someone who has received both, I can assure anyone that they feel VERY different.

Unless by fail you actually MEAN fail, not provisional, which I suppose is possible beyond fundies, as well.

please don't lump provisionals

I didn't. What do you mean? Provisional and fail are two different things

 

[KevinNM]

I failed a doubles primer. I was unable to reach the left valve due to shoulder issues, and hence unable to perform even a bad valve drill. I've gotten better at this since then.

 

[lv2dive]

I just wasn't aware of anyone who actually failed post-fundies classes who had to retake the entire class, vs redoing (or doing) the experience dives.

I didn't. What do you mean? Provisional and fail are two different things

 

[lv2dive]

Interesting, this does not make sense to me. The last I understood, the primers (which may not exist anymore) were workshops, not pass/fail classes.

I failed a doubles primer. I was unable to reach the left valve due to shoulder issues, and hence unable to perform even a bad valve drill. I've gotten better at this since then.