Happy to be alive - scuba diving incident in Brockville, Ontario

[Warren_L]

Freefloat, the Lillly is the one where you find it in poor viz and hard current, hold onto it as you work around it, then fly over it in the current, right - hugging the rock to your right, but not running into it, with Freighters passing overhead. Am I right on that? :vosk1: Damn! Did you beat the guy who told you it was a newbie dive? rofile:

Sounds like the Daryaw. There's a line on the wreck you can use to pull yourself along, and if you get up on top (the wreck lays upside-down) on top, you can fly the keel from the bow to the stern with that whipping current and grab the ascent line at the stern. I would definitely say this is not a wreck for the newly certified.....

 

[sarora]

Sarosa, I'd be curious - as to whether you had a group leader who knew you were brand new, or if the boat captain knew that. How did you get on that boat.

The group leader knew that I was a brand new diver. I took the open water certification course with them. I know I was ignorant and should have asked more questions (my mistake). But no body really told me about the potential hazards of these dives. I am learning more about these dive sites through this thread now. Trust me I had no clue that these dives are not for beginners - I thought that's what scuba diving is like in Canada and that's what the divers do. I guess you are not scared about what you don't know.

After my first dive when I was low on air, I asked the instructor for the reason. And this is what he told me ... "Relax .. just relax down there .. and don't try to fight the current because this way you will use a lot more air. Use your arms and just drag using any hand holds.". I did follow this advice when doing Lillie Parsons and I enjoyed that dive. Now I know that it was the CO2 build up that triggered the attack - I didn't know how it felt like until I experienced it first hand.

Thanks you very much for your suggestions.

 

[starfish365]

Sarora

Not to be nasty but I think you really need to re-read your OW manual.....depth for OW certification (you went way over), drift diving isn't until AOW. Also make sure you TELL people what your level of skill is.....just cause you took a class with them doesn't mean they'll remember or think about it themselves. If they are diving beyond your abilities don't go with them - find someone else. There's lots of us around.

Glad to hear you made out ok and that you won't do something like "seek closure" on a dive that could kill you or injure you.

IF you go on holiday make sure you pay special attention to diving and flying sections of manual....talk to people...make sure you're not putting yourself at risk.

Its all very exciting when you first learn to dive....I'm only at 20 dives myself and still get giddy when I'm gearing up - and nervous at new experiences.

Remember, have fun but like you've been told by everyone - be careful and know the limits of your certification and your skills.

Have fun and keep us posted on your progress. It's what's great about this board.....

 

[yknot]

sarora,
CO2 build up and the resultant panic, or near panic, is very common in new divers still struggling with buoyancy control doing deepish dives. We see the same things over and over.

You need to get with a different crowd of divers and instructors, IMO.

This is the best advice posted in this thread.

I have some personal experience with panic attacks with some family members. If you think that what you experienced was a panic attack, seek medical attention before you dive again, even in a pool. Overcoming a serious medical conditon requires more than conquering you fear or "getting back on the horse". Like MikeF has said, CO2 will cause issues and occurs especially when you exert yourself a depth. Consider your overall physical condition. Your personal profile shows open water cert dives at 25', followed by a near death experience to 87'. Per what you have already stated about your air consumption just getting to depth, you likely started breathing heavy and suffered a CO2 hit. It wasn't likely a "panic" disorder, just a triggering of your survival instinct.

 

[Warren_L]

Sarosa, I'd be curious - as to whether you had a group leader who knew you were brand new, or if the boat captain knew that. How did you get on that boat.

The group leader knew that I was a brand new diver. I took the open water certification course with them. I know I was ignorant and should have asked more questions (my mistake). But no body really told me about the potential hazards of these dives. I am learning more about these dive sites through this thread now. Trust me I had no clue that these dives are not for beginners - I thought that's what scuba diving is like in Canada and that's what the divers do. I guess you are not scared about what you don't know.

After my first dive when I was low on air, I asked the instructor for the reason. And this is what he told me ... "Relax .. just relax down there .. and don't try to fight the current because this way you will use a lot more air. Use your arms and just drag using any hand holds.". I did follow this advice when doing Lillie Parsons and I enjoyed that dive. Now I know that it was the CO2 build up that triggered the attack - I didn't know how it felt like until I experienced it first hand.

Thanks you very much for your suggestions.

For new divers, there are just some wrecks or sites that are just not appropriate given typically limited experience. I'm quite surprised that the dive leaders were ok with a newly certified o/w diver doing dives (and some in excess of recommended limits) that are relatively quite challenging for inexperienced divers. And if all the instructor had to offer was to "relax" then I would find a new instructor. Seriously.

 

[DandyDon]

Sarosa, I'd be curious - as to whether you had a group leader who knew you were brand new, or if the boat captain knew that. How did you get on that boat.

The group leader knew that I was a brand new diver. I took the open water certification course with them. I know I was ignorant and should have asked more questions (my mistake). But no body really told me about the potential hazards of these dives. I am learning more about these dive sites through this thread now. Trust me I had no clue that these dives are not for beginners - I thought that's what scuba diving is like in Canada and that's what the divers do. I guess you are not scared about what you don't know.

The leader is either and idiot, or was desperate to sell the seats on the boat. You were the victim. Bad as it was at the time, you learned a valuable lesson, and you're a better diver already for it.

When you go to Cozumel, and the Guide says "just follow me," then goes beyond your abilities, you'll have no problem doing what's best.

 

[FreeFloat]

Freefloat, the Lillly is the one where you find it in poor viz and hard current, hold onto it as you work around it, then fly over it in the current, right - hugging the rock to your right, but not running into it, with Freighters passing overhead. Am I right on that? :vosk1: Damn! Did you beat the guy who told you it was a newbie dive? rofile:

Not quite - but my friends who expressed shock later on were correct in that I wouldn't call it appropriate for newbies. The Lillie is an upside down schooner precariously seated on a ledge at 50/60' in a stiff current in a narrow channel. Freighters can and do pass near this wreck as they travel the channel. At the time I was also very new to current - I had freedived in current before, but never on scuba. Viz isn't terrific on this wreck, it can vary between 5' and 25' or better, and ambient light levels can vary from near daylight to wanting to have a light in hand. The Lillie's masts point downward and the mainmast (I think) goes down to about 95'. The ledge the wreck sits on, is a sheer underwater rock face with a bottom in the 170-210' range (popularly advertised as 170', but our fishfinder reported 210'). As well, there is a noticeable downwelling (underwater waterfall) coming off the island so if you're doing the drift portion at a depth of about 70', you can easily get blown by it unless you know to expect it.

No, not a newbie wreck.............. yet I asked the charter op for specifics such as current and depth and got quite 'it's nothing serious" type answers! I suppose the "locals" have all "dived it to death" so it's nothing special for them anymore.

Just like the Gaskin - a much much milder (tamer) wreck - wide open with blasted holes and missing decking, but its top deck sits at 50' and the bottom is at 70'. Tons of silt, easily stirred, and it sits broadside to a current as well, though nothing like the Lillie. As it was my second post-cert dive I limited myself to 50' max depth so as not to do a reverse profile - and although the current that day was what I'd now term "slight" or "negligible" it still gave me a little frustration trying to stay on the top deck without getting pushed sideways (there is no current inside the wreck).

If I could meet myself the newbie the day before booking the charter? I wouldn't stop me from doing the Gaskin, but I'd advise me to get a few more dives in before trying the Lillie. Especially to log a few dives in mild current before jumping into strong stuff.

I'm not sorry I did those wrecks - but it's definitely a case of Ignorance is Bliss!!

 

[diverbrian]

Don,

You recall the Lillie correctly except that I didn't think that it was far enough away from the island for the freighters to be a concern. The current makes that a drift dive that requires a diver to find hand holds and pull themselves around the wreck (at least the day that we dove it). NOT A WRECK FOR A NEW DIVER.

The Daryaw is another example of one that we were concerned about for current issues. I'll dive it next year.

The America was the one where overhead freighters literally turn it into an overhead environment. My dive buddy and I dove that one on rule of thirds gas management for that reason.

The fact of the matter is that if you are not comfortable with current, Brockville is on the St. Lawrence River. The river part indicates current. Throw in depth and you can have some issues. I am still surprised when charter ops recommend these types of dives for divers fresh out of OW.

Sonara, I am glad to hear that you survived your experienced and that it hasn't scared you from diving. May I suggest some wrecks in the Kingston area (closer to Toronto, too ) as well. While it is a bit more chilly, there is less current and fewer other issues to deal with. The OFWF members have already volunteered. I would suggest taking them up on their assistance and you will be comfortable diving again.

Oh, as the other divers have suggested avoid shallow breathing and CO2 build-up. 1) Stop 2) BREATHE (DEEPLY) 3) think and then 4) act.

Safe diving!

 

[sarora]

Sarora, I'm in Toronto also if you'd like to get together for a dive sometime..........

That will be great .. if my "stupid" experience hasn't swayed you away from becoming my buddy. It's good to know that I am not being considered a liability and other divers will dive with me. Thanks!

 

[FreeFloat]

That will be great .. if my "stupid" experience hasn't swayed you away from becoming my buddy. It's good to know that I am not being considered a liability and other divers will dive with me. Thanks!

Not at all! Far more important than skill or experience (or lack thereof ) is the appropriate attitude - willingness to learn and to adapt. You seem to have that in spades!

PM me if you're seriously interested in getting out for a dive......... there are spots not far from Toronto that are most definitely "newbie approved" while not being "boring" for more advanced divers.