Hallucinations

[Fish_Whisperer]

Hmmm.... never thought of that for some reason, I'm not entirely sure how nitrogen narcosis works exactly or how it would be affected by a slight bit of hypoxia, but it does seem to make sense.

I hope someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I think nitrogen bonds to the red blood cells, thereby inhibiting the amount of oxygen they are able to carry. If carbon monoxide has already taken enough of the red blood cells out of commission, then you would already be entering the water in a mildly "narced" state. At depth, even a fairly shallow depth, this would be magified.

 

[Fred R.]

I was in a dive shop in MA this one fine afternoon, when a trio of zonked out, red eyed, zombie divers came in for advice. They had just come up from a shore dive, one guy went belly up, nearly unconscious and the other two who were NOT feeling well, dragged him to shore.

They were uncertain about their airfill, and cracked one of the tanks in the dive shop.

The entire place filled with the smell of solvent and we all yelled at them to shut the tank down.

It turned out that they had their tanks filled at their favorite dive shop, where they had a compressor with the intake plumbed through the outside wall. Unbeknownst to the dive shop owner, the store adjacent was being painted while he was running the compressor and the compressor, doing its job, merrily compressed all the paint fumes from the alley.

While bored high school kids may indulge in this dangerous activity for a thrill, divers should have enough of a thrill without ‘huffing’ to enhance the activity.

I don’t know if this is what happened in the problem described, but I was witness to this similar situation.

 

[Cacia]

hmmm, somebody will pipe up, but the narcotic of Nitrogen is thought to be the "direct cellular effect" not a result of occupying the target site for O2. Having Carbon Monoxide on board (does bind with Hb) at low levels before going to depth might be imperceptible. I was thinking that as the Partial Pressure of the CO increased, so would the physiologic (nuero) effect. Anyone who actually knows? I don't but I was speculating based on the mystery of the circumstances. Four semesters of Chemistry but I don't remember much.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

Might be best to move this one to the Dive Medicine part of the board?

 

[MoonWrasse]

Yea, CO was one of my first guesses too, but the symptoms, aside form tunnel vision, don't really match up, also when you think about it it doesn't really make that much sense. The problem with CO is that it bonds to hemogolbin 200s stronger than 02 and doesn't let go, preventing any 02 from bonding. If we had been breathing contaminated air in the car then once we got out and quite breathing it all the hemoglobin that could be occupied by CO would be once we hit the water. So correct me if I'm wrong, but wouldn't being under pressure and having more 02 dissolved in the blood plasma make it easier for us to cope with any CO inhalation before diving? Also, if we'd been breathing contaminated air down at 90ft and beenacting all loopy wouldn't the chances of us blacking out from hypoxia in shallow water be great enough for at least one of us to black out?

I like the plankton/bivalve theory, there are a lot of wierd cretures that live at that site and who knows what they're secreting into the water.

Unless you're going to absorb the toxins rapidly thru whatever skin is exposed (your eyes would be protected), I just don't believe this would be the cause in such a short time frame.

I'd give DAN a call.

 

[Cacia]

okay, one last question...and then I will go away. Was it an old car or a new car?

 

[Nomad]

I think nitrogen bonds to the red blood cells

This isn't what they taught us while I was cutting up cadavers in college.

Nitrogen doesn't bond with anything. Nitrogen loading is about tissue saturation (blood is also a tissue) not about nitrogen bonding to hemoglobin.

Remember that the air we breathe on the surface is already more than 2/3 nitrogen.

 

[Fish_Whisperer]

This isn't what they taught us while I was cutting up cadavers in college.

Nitrogen doesn't bond with anything. Nitrogen loading is about tissue saturation (blood is also a tissue) not about nitrogen bonding to hemoglobin.

Remember that the air we breathe on the surface is already more than 2/3 nitrogen.

Thanks, Nomad. I appreciate that.

 

[bisonduquebec]

I would definitively check the tanks. Anything can go wrong - new contaminated air, previous fill with contaminated air, corrosion, chemical left, ...

Even if you work at the dive shop does not guarantee that some tanks where not filled up elsewhere. I sure hope these tanks where not put back in circulation before a complete check.

Of course the car is also a very good theory.

 

[S. starfish]

I would definitively check the tanks. Anything can go wrong - new contaminated air, previous fill with contaminated air, corrosion, chemical left, ...

Even if you work at the dive shop does not guarantee that some tanks where not filled up elsewhere. I sure hope these tanks where not put back in circulation before a complete check.

Of course the car is also a very good theory.

Since we had absolutely no idea what exactly had happened we did everythign we could think if including putting new filters on our compressor and checking out the tanks, can't be too careful with this sort of thing. Our air gets pumped in from the roof of our building so it's pretty fresh and the risk of having anything like paint fumes in there, unless someone was painting the air duct, is pretty much nonexsistant. I'm pretty sure that it was something from the car but the owner denies it. It did have to get an overhaul after breaking down a while later though, it's pretty old.