Halcyon Prouduction, DIR, and ironic facts of life

[detroit diver]

The online marketing firms are only in business because of the manufacturer's decision to price products differently for different markets. Of course, they are entitled to do this as they wish. If the same product sold for the same price everywhere, there would not be the HUGE differences in prices that we see now. You can buy a regulator in Italy or France much cheaper than you can here in the States. Volume would dictate that the prices should be lower here, but they are not. It's pretty obvious that the manufacturer of these discounted products could care less about their LDS base. If they did care, they'd stop the sales to LP and others by adjusting their prices accordingly.

You don't see Halcyon's products on Leisure-pro, do you? That's because LP can't buy Halcyon products in Europe any cheaper than they can in the States.

newbie-in-fl once bubbled...
Yes the dive industry is supposed to operate
in a free market society. If external price
controls have been imposed by the manufacturers
on the LDS, this is technically an olgiopoly.
If the LDS was the only choice for the rec diver
to purchase gear there would not be a problem.
The problem arises in internet commerce that
has allowed divers to purchase gear at lower
prices (often much lower) than offered at the LDS.

So even the efficient dive store that offers
good service and gear often cannot compete
in the long term with the wholesaler. Can in point,
a local dive shop in our area with great service
and gear just shut its doors.

since internet commerce is here to stay, the LDS should
be allowed to lower prices without penalty in order
to compete with the online retailers.

 

[lragsac]

Jackknife once bubbled...

Hmmmmm, I'm waiting for halcyon to lower the pricing on their wings to be competitive with Oxycheq's wings, only time will tell. How else you gonna compete with Oxycheq's quality and low pricing.

Well, at least regarding the singles wings, one should keep in mind that with the Oxycheq wing, you'll need to purchase a STA in order to use it. With the Pioneer wings you don't really need one. So, in the end, the price is not really lower. I started out with a Pioneer #27 and purchased an Oxycheq #30 but then had to buy a STA, so I spent at least as much as I would have for a Pioneer.

 

[detroit diver]

lragsac once bubbled...


Well, at least regarding the singles wings, one should keep in mind that with the Oxycheq wing, you'll need to purchase a STA in order to use it. With the Pioneer wings you don't really need one. So, in the end, the price is not really lower. I started out with a Pioneer #27 and purchased an Oxycheq #30 but then had to buy a STA, so I spent at least as much as I would have for a Pioneer.

Not only that, but quality comparison is not really valid as the Oxycheq wing has been out only about a month or so.

It's kind of obvious that Jackknife either works for Oxycheq, or has a distinct dislike for Halcyon/GUE/DIR.

Look at the tone and attitude taken by JJ, and the one taken by Jackknife. You choose which one to feel more comfortable with.

Oh yeah, I forgot to add: I buy all my Halcyon stuff retail and I don't need to kiss JJ's butt.

 

[LUBOLD8431]

Ok, one thing to consider here, the new wing to replace the pioneer, the eclipse, it wont have the rods, so you will need to use an STA with it. The funny thing is, it will be the same price as the Pioneer. So, all things being equal, you need an sta with the eclipse and the Oxycheq wings. So, look at just the price between the eclipse, and the oxycheq, and the oxycheq is cheaper.

Well, lets not just go by price though. Quality of materials and workmanship is important also, yes???

Halcyon has gotten away form the single bag design, and now is going with an internal bladder, and outer protective bag (eclipse wing). This may be better, maybe not. I am sure Oxycheq will have their own offering in this regard also...

 

[Dryglove]

lragsac once bubbled...


Well, at least regarding the singles wings, one should keep in mind that with the Oxycheq wing, you'll need to purchase a STA in order to use it. With the Pioneer wings you don't really need one. So, in the end, the price is not really lower. I started out with a Pioneer #27 and purchased an Oxycheq #30 but then had to buy a STA, so I spent at least as much as I would have for a Pioneer.

But,

It appears the eclipse wing no longer uses the built in STA.

http://www.underwaterexplorers.co.uk/eclipse/

 

[Gator Diver]

Detroit Diver - what you say regarding Halcyons pricing
is quite true. And that is probably why LP doesnt
sell it. If they can't get it cheaper, they would eventually
have to increase the price to make a profit.

LUBOLD - oxy v. haly --- the debate continues
to brew. Maybe one day I will have enough
cashola to buy them both. Doesn't OMS have
a new single tank wing also?

 

[jplacson]

lal7176 once bubbled...


But,

It appears the eclipse wing no longer uses the built in STA.

http://www.underwaterexplorers.co.uk/eclipse/

:upset: And I just got my Pioneer 27s!!! I wish I had known about the Eclipse sooner!!!

 

[LUBOLD8431]

newbie-in-fl once bubbled...
.

LUBOLD - Doesn't OMS have
a new single tank wing also?

Its not out yet. As with most OMS products, they talk about it for a minimum of three years, put it up on their website, and then they make a big brew haha about how its better than anyone else's, and then they go on backorder for a year... Then you can finally get one. Maybe they will be ready by next summer.... I dont really care, because Im not buying any... I cant believe OMS is still in business...

BTW, you only need one wing... Oxycheq baby....

 

[detroit diver]

newbie-in-fl once bubbled...
Detroit Diver - what you say regarding Halcyons pricing
is quite true. And that is probably why LP doesnt
sell it. If they can't get it cheaper, they would eventually
have to increase the price to make a profit.

LUBOLD - oxy v. haly --- the debate continues
to brew. Maybe one day I will have enough
cashola to buy them both. Doesn't OMS have
a new single tank wing also?

If you take this to it's logical conclusion, then there would be no online marketers if Mares, Scubapro, etc ,etc, etc, set a price floor for all of their retailers.

Your take on this depends on your point of view.

If I were an LDS, I would prefer to have price limits and compete on service and training. I could make a reasonable markup without having to fight with an uncompetetive wholesaler that offers no service.

As a consumer, I know have a split personality. I want a local shop that I can have a good relationship with. Service, air fills, parts, etc. On the other hand, I don't want to pay full boat for my gear. You can only have it both ways for a short period of time. Something will eventually give way.

 

[Genesis]

If you take this to it's logical conclusion, then there would be no online marketers if Mares, Scubapro, etc ,etc, etc, set a price floor for all of their retailers.

The EU in particular takes an extremely dim view of price restraints. The routinely go after companies that do this, including in some cases indicting any executives they can get their hands on in the EU nations.

We need to follow the EU's lead on this matter.

You can buy an Apeks DS4 for about US $110 over there. Here, you can't touch that price. The difference is that over there Apeks can't force their dealers to sell at "all one price", where here, Aqualung does, using the exact same type of language and "policy" as does Scubapro, Oceanic, Halcyon and others.