Halcyon Prouduction, DIR, and ironic facts of life

[Robert Phillips]

I don't know what you were looking at, but the stitching on the oxycheq wing is heavier than any halycon wing I have ever seen.. Oxycheq is using the heaviest thread that a commercial sewing machine can use.. Personally I'd use the 45# since there is no drag penalty over the 30#, and the added lift can be useful in rough surface conditions.

I was not referring to the actual thread used, I am sure it is high quality. What I was reffering to was the quality of the stitching itself. I saw loose thread and the trimming material was not sewn on with an eye for quality, IMO. I did not look at the thread thickness but with a casual glance. Though it did not appear of any greater quality than the halcyon. Of course this is just ONE wing and may not be indicative of ALL Oxycheq wings. Same concept goes with Halcyon. Some wings are damaged in shipping, is this the manufacturers fault? I dont think so. Hit an urchin while digging out that big bug? Again, not Halcyons fault. Customer service issues are along the same lines, some bad, but definitley more good. You can't please everyone. I hope you enjoy your wing, I sure do love mine!
Good Diving!

 

[padiscubapro]

robertphillips5 once bubbled...


I was not referring to the actual thread used, I am sure it is high quality. What I was reffering to was the quality of the stitching itself. I saw loose thread and the trimming material was not sewn on with an eye for quality, IMO. I did not look at the thread thickness but with a casual glance. Though it did not appear of any greater quality than the halcyon. Of course this is just ONE wing and may not be indicative of ALL Oxycheq wings. Same concept goes with Halcyon. Some wings are damaged in shipping, is this the manufacturers fault? I dont think so. Hit an urchin while digging out that big bug? Again, not Halcyons fault. Customer service issues are along the same lines, some bad, but definitley more good. You can't please everyone. I hope you enjoy your wing, I sure do love mine!
Good Diving!

I was just commenting on the quality.. I have sold several wings and haven't seen any problems yet.. I don't use the wing myself, since on my RB rig I like the way the OMS bungied wing (with just a few loose bungies) fits better..

 

[Bloop]

detroit diver once bubbled...
Hey Bloop,

Have you ever owned any Halcyon equipment?

I read about it.

"Researched" about it. :reading reviews, talking to people

Seen them in action.

Really impressed with it.

Walked into the store with S$3000.00 (I got the prices of the equipment from the internet, and knew what I wanted to buy)

I walked out of the store with S$3000.00, less than 5 minutes later.

Detroit Diver,

You may be blessed with good customer service. Not me... it sucked. If you noticed all my posts, I never once complained about price. (I am an equipment distributor in Asia too. For lighting and Sound systems). All I asked for is good service for something that is very highly-priced.

I DON'T PAY SO MUCH TO GET NONSENSE IN MY EARS!

That's not for flaming... it is just to represent my feelings at that time...

And that is why I invited Mr Jablonski over to Singapore to personally witness the situation.

Thank You.

 

[Bloop]

I am still impressed with Halcyon equipment, not their service.

And as the prices are so high, I have engaged in "alternative" activities, which resulted in the purchasing of an Oxycheq Wing.

I have consulted with my metal engineering contractor and he quoted me 316 SS with the exact dimensions for less than 1/3 Halcyon BP prices.

As for the Lightings, I have loads of MH, SAT, MSR, HMI, HMD, CSD, MSD,(OSRAM, SYLVANNIA, GE, PHILIPS, you name it) condensers, ignitors, transformers as well as lamps in my warehouse. I got quite a few underwater canisters as well, considering I was engaged in quite a few water fountain theme parks design and installations.

So what is stopping me from me from doing all these?

You got it! Branding.... my stuff will work just as well... but has got no brand..

Yeah!.... Diving is a fashion statement, right?

Just get that customer service right. And I may buy Halcyon.. again.

 

[detroit diver]

Bloop once bubbled...

..........Detroit Diver,

You may be blessed with good customer service. Not me... it sucked. If you noticed all my posts, I never once complained about price. (I am an equipment distributor in Asia too. For lighting and Sound systems). All I asked for is good service for something that is very highly-priced.

I DON'T PAY SO MUCH TO GET NONSENSE IN MY EARS!

That's not for flaming... it is just to represent my feelings at that time...

And that is why I invited Mr Jablonski over to Singapore to personally witness the situation.

Thank You.

"Anyway, what does the word "Prouduction" on the subject title means???

Was it intentional or a mistake?

If you were proud of your production, then you better relook again.... there was a period there was a lot of complaints about the pioneer wings."

I didn't have any problem with the issue of customer service when you went in to purchase your wing (although I'm sorry for you that it happened). My problem is with the generalization that there are a "lot of complaints about the pioneer wings". Actually, there are very few complaints about them, but the vocal ones stand out. In fact, many of the complaints had to do with second hand purchaser's problems. Those are not the manufacturer's issues at all.

My point-don't paint everything with such a broad brush based on the one experience that you had. You've never owned a pioneer wing, so you can't tell us that you've had a problem with them. Everything else is just innuendo and supposition.

 

[Ron Brandt]

James Goddard once bubbled...
Man,

Post 1 from a new dude and people are buying it. Call me a cynic but I don't. I sent a PM to the author asking for an email from gue.com. (I can tell a real from a fake and if I get it I promise to eat some crow here.) but jeez this looks like a sock puppet to me.

And as a pro-Halcyon person, I'd like to think it's real but I just can't buy it.

James

Actually I have corresponded with JJ in the past and the posts are worded pretty much in the same style as he has responded to me in the past.

BTY-It was non Halcyon/Gue related but was agency and training related.

Ron

 

[Bloop]

detroit diver once bubbled...


"Anyway, what does the word "Prouduction" on the subject title means???

Was it intentional or a mistake?

If you were proud of your production, then you better relook again.... there was a period there was a lot of complaints about the pioneer wings."

I didn't have any problem with the issue of customer service when you went in to purchase your wing (although I'm sorry for you that it happened). My problem is with the generalization that there are a "lot of complaints about the pioneer wings". Actually, there are very few complaints about them, but the vocal ones stand out. In fact, many of the complaints had to do with second hand purchaser's problems. Those are not the manufacturer's issues at all.

My point-don't paint everything with such a broad brush based on the one experience that you had. You've never owned a pioneer wing, so you can't tell us that you've had a problem with them. Everything else is just innuendo and supposition.

You are right on the point that I took the view of faulty wings from the board.

And you are right that it came from a "few" very vocal individuals.

However, I don't believe that the few just a few. We are talking about life-support here. And we are talking about, supposedly, the best system around (which I am willing to pay the price for it).

And if you are proud to manufacture the best equipment around, then you should at least try to provide good service to the people who trusts in your equipment.

We dont even want to go into the arguing the authenticity of second-hand equipment or not. The customer service department could have simply asked the owner to send the wing in for inspection. There they could really determine whether or not to reimburse, or even repair. Instead, what did the service department do? That is not the kind of response you would expect from a top-grade equipment manufacturer...
unless they dont manufacture, thus they do not know how to do the inspection, but of course that point has been clarified by Mr JJ himself.

My point is that whether second hand or not, is it still Halcyon? Of course it still is! Could the wing do even more damage? (like sold to other company to do campaigning?) The staff could be more tactful in handling these situations.

Prove that you are really sincere in manufacturing good-quality life-support systems and provide good after-sales services.
(like showing real concern and doing market checks on dealers and distributors) Maintain the standards that first made Halcyon.

 

[Groundhog246]

detroit diver once bubbled...
The online marketing firms are only in business because of the manufacturer's decision to price products differently for different markets. Of course, they are entitled to do this as they wish. If the same product sold for the same price everywhere, there would not be the HUGE differences in prices that we see now. You can buy a regulator in Italy or France much cheaper than you can here in the States. Volume would dictate that the prices should be lower here, but they are not. It's pretty obvious that the manufacturer of these discounted products could care less about their LDS base. If they did care, they'd stop the sales to LP and others by adjusting their prices accordingly.

You don't see Halcyon's products on Leisure-pro, do you? That's because LP can't buy Halcyon products in Europe any cheaper than they can in the States.

I have only one word. LIABILITY! Have you seen what it costs for liability insurance in the "sue happy" USA? Courts in the EU and many other countries do not allow frivolous lawsuits where the end user screwed up and sue the manufacturer for enabling him/her to screw up. All these warning labels such as "Caution: Sharp blade may cause injury" on a knife, "Do not stop chain with hands" on a chain saw, etc are only applied in North America. And for that we all pay more. I have an aquaintance that used to build an exceptionally good tailgate lift for big trucks. Powered up and down instead of letting gravity lower it. Thus it didn't suffer from freezing in the up position in the winter. 40%, that's right FORTY PERCENT of his selling price was to cover the liability insurance. I'm not suggesting manufacturers shouldn't be liable for their mistakes (ie faulty OPV causing an injury), but it should be limited to defects in the product and not cover misuse.

 

[ScottyK]

Bloop- I'm sorry you got so put off at your local dealer, but am not sure if you're going in the right direction trying to fix it. Consider the following example:

You go into the local supermarket to buy a case of Coca Cola. When you get to the checkout counter, the cashier is a complete jerk to the point where you walk out without purchasing. Do you go to the cashier's boss and complain about it, or do you call Coke?

Assuming you go to complain and find out the cashier is also the owner of the market. Do you stop going to that market, or do you stop drinking Coke?

It's good that you gave JJ a heads up about the situation, but I think that 99% of your gripe should be with the dealer. Punish him by not giving him your business (which you already did) and find someone else to buy your Halcyon gear from. If not local, go mail order.

Scott

 

[detroit diver]

I think what you're asking Halcyon to do is way past good business judgement. They should have everyone that has a complaint ship back the equipment for evaluation? Give me a break. Are you going to be happy to pay for shipping costs if the determination goes against you? What company can afford to have every single issue-no matter their fault- be sent back as a return and inspection? This just isn't feasible.

Right now, they go well beyond ANY manufacturer when it comes to customer service. In fact, they even replace stuff that shouldn't be replaced.

Someone has to make this judgement based on a phone call. Sometmes people don't like the answer and those are the ones you read about. The ones who got a satisfactory answer are silent, because they are happy. And yes, they are in the huge majority.

I am as customer service oriented as you get, but I think you're asking too much from any manufacturer.

Bloop once bubbled...


You are right on the point that I took the view of faulty wings from the board.

And you are right that it came from a "few" very vocal individuals.

However, I don't believe that the few just a few. We are talking about life-support here. And we are talking about, supposedly, the best system around (which I am willing to pay the price for it).

And if you are proud to manufacture the best equipment around, then you should at least try to provide good service to the people who trusts in your equipment.

We dont even want to go into the arguing the authenticity of second-hand equipment or not. The customer service department could have simply asked the owner to send the wing in for inspection. There they could really determine whether or not to reimburse, or even repair. Instead, what did the service department do? That is not the kind of response you would expect from a top-grade equipment manufacturer...
unless they dont manufacture, thus they do not know how to do the inspection, but of course that point has been clarified by Mr JJ himself.

My point is that whether second hand or not, is it still Halcyon? Of course it still is! Could the wing do even more damage? (like sold to other company to do campaigning?) The staff could be more tactful in handling these situations.

Prove that you are really sincere in manufacturing good-quality life-support systems and provide good after-sales services.
(like showing real concern and doing market checks on dealers and distributors) Maintain the standards that first made Halcyon.