Halcyon BCD

[Scubaroo]

Halcyon still have Fair Trade Pricing on their website:

http://www.halcyon.net/ftp/ftp.shtml

As a gear seller (of a different manufacturer that does not have FTP), I can see the attractiveness of FTP - basically it prevents discount wars and undercutting amongst dealers, and in this day and age of online retailing, such a move by a single outlet with a national salesbase can cripple the sales of stores nationwide (or even internationally). As an end-consumer though, it is frustrating to find that you can't get a "best deal" somewhere.

 

[Meng_Tze]

I can confirm that 'H' still operates a FTP policy and makes their resellers operate that. The new price list for 2005 has higher prices than last year and as such the customers will be 'forced' to higher prices. From a reseller perspective there is little margin on the products, so the play room for deals is also small. I am sure that actual manufacturing costs, distribution, marketing and adding some margin for 'H' does not add up to such high prices in the shops.............then what can it be? Greed? I am pretty sure that the opex of 'H' have not increased dramatically for them to increase prices again this year............?

To me there is a line where sound business crosses into price gauging. This is not a long term strategy, but a short/medium term money making excercise. Not substainable in the long term since you out price yourself eventually. When the price goes up too high, customers will start looking elsewhere, niche compettitors will jump in and take the customer base. This has happened with many products and manufacturers in the past and I can see this happening again here. If the price hikes keep up I can see 'H' loosing market share in two years, and then prices will come down again.

Ultimately it is what we want to pay for our gear, if customers accept the price, the manufacturer will continue to try it on. Bottom line, if the price sounds right and/or or if you really need it, buy it. If not look elsewhere.

Anyway, I am rambling on. 'H' products are very good, but over priced.

my 0,02

 

[Dive4Life]

I do own Halcyon gear and after I purchased it I realized how much higher it is priced than some of the competitors. I still have to get my girlfriend a setup and we decided not to go with Halcyon and will more than likely go with diverite. The only ones that they are protecting with that policy are the LDS. Thats the only thing I can think of. Oh well, time will ultimately phase them out if they continue with these business practices. It is really good gear and it is a shame that they want to be over priced but the competitions gear is of a comparable quality. Thats my two sense worth as well.

 

[Stargate]

One thing most can all agree on, is that Halcyon gear is excellent! Sure I would like to get it cheaper also. Buy the best you can afford, your life depends on it. My daughter is taking up diving this summer and I am buying her Halcyon.

 

[hermosadive]

One thing most can all agree on, is that Halcyon gear is excellent! Sure I would like to get it cheaper also. Buy the best you can afford, your life depends on it. My daughter is taking up diving this summer and I am buying her Halcyon.

It sounds like you are implying that she will be safer in a Halcyon backplate and harness over any other backplate and harness by other manufacturers. Excellent, maybe. Safer or better, untrue.

 

[jplacson]

hermosadive... don't you know? those little "H" logos on the strap are magical... and allow N2 to exit your body faster! hehehehe (yes, that was a joke)

seriously... buying Halcyon gear, over Oxycheq or any other BP/single tank wing isn't any safer or better. It's mainly like buying designer clothing.

A t-shirt is a t-shirt is a t-shirt. But branded shirts are more expensive... they all serve the same function. Or those Oakley SI boots... they don't make your swat team shoot any better... or run any faster than the regular army boots.

I buy Halcyon because I support their efforts. Being a small company, they can't lower costs the way larger ones like Scubapro or Mares can (due to the fact that SP and Mares sell in much larger volumes) ... so I wouldn't want to see Halcyon go under any time soon. Only time will tell.

 

[Dan Gibson]

ScubaPro lower their prices :11: I know, I know, they actually did about a year ago on some items IIRC. It's still funny to hear lower prices and ScubaPro in the same sentance.

I buy Halcyon because I support their efforts. Being a small company, they can't lower costs the way larger ones like Scubapro or Mares can (due to the fact that SP and Mares sell in much larger volumes) ... so I wouldn't want to see Halcyon go under any time soon. Only time will tell.

 

[Stargate]

I said what I said... with nothing implied.

Halcyon sells only DIR. Most every one else sell whatever sells! This alone speaks much for H.

Unless Halcyon submits into selling everything or reducing their quality, I'll buy their DIR equipment and also will support their efforts along with John. Most others that sell everything, you have to first have the knowledge to weed out the unacceptable equipment. For a new diver this is not easy nor inexpensive dealing with trial and error. And errors you try to avoid in the first place. So H might not be really that more expensive after all unless you are experienced and can pick and build your own!

This is just my 2 cents worth for the newer diver who is trying to navigate all of the equipment confusion.

 

[jplacson]

Stargate... I TOTALLY AGREE!!! Had I gotten suckered into the whole marketing BS that Mares, ScubaPro, Aqua Lung, Seaquest...etc... I'd be changing BCs every year!!!! Moving up through their 'affordable' (crappy) models... to their 'premium'(supposedly good) models.

The reason the BC is the biggest deal in DIR equipment is because it's the one manufacturers dish out like crazy with all these weird contraptions. (HUB) I mean, some of these things cost way more than a fully setup Halcyon Eclipse!!! The HUB, with all it's failure points (which I have seen fail) costs a whole lot more than the Eclipse.

Sure, it "looks" more advanced... but it isn't. You get cheaper and thinner materials which fray easier... plastic clips that break easier.... D-rings that don't serve any purpose other than to make your BC look 'serious'... and not to mention that Airlock and all those friggin' purge valves!!! I think the HUB has about 6 purge valves all internally connected by a cable that dumps air from all the valves simultaneously at the touch of a button. Man... it looks cool to play with on land... but I don't ever wanna have to deal with that thing while diving. It just looks cool in the dive shop manequin.

In the long run... I am so happy I waited and saved up for my Halcyon. I just made do with rentals until I learned enough to know what to buy. I was deciding between the Halcyon and the Diverite. I ended up with the Halcyon since DR didn't have a single tank wing (I think they have one now, but now at the time I was shopping)

 

[DA Aquamaster]

ScubaPro lower their prices :11: I know, I know, they actually did about a year ago on some items IIRC. It's still funny to hear lower prices and ScubaPro in the same sentance.

Yes they did for the 2004 catalog. That is a good argument in support of the economic model supporting fair trade pricing. What Scuabpro discovered from it's dealers was that they were increasing sales of other lines of equipment to meet the demand for less expensive euipment from customers which of course reduced their sales of Scubapro items. So SP was forced to make a price correction to make their products more attractive.

Scubapro is still facing a problem in that many of their items like masks and snorkels are generic items sold by other companies at perhaps half the Scubapro MSRP. As happened before, dealers will be informing sales reps who will be calling or visiting to complain about slumping product sales in that area and they will in turn pass the information up to the management who will then either have to reduce prices on those items or design and introduce new items that warrant the prices being charged to increase sales.

Fair Trade Pricing is a balancing act. On the one hand, the prices have to be high enough to keep the dealers in business and to cover the other costs of maintaining a large and stong dealer network with good parts and warranty support. On the other hand prices have to be low enough to prevent the loss of customers to other lower priced products and/or internet sales.

General motors finally discovered after a quarter century of losing market share to Japanese car companies, that building in quality costs very little but does represent something that people will pay more for. So customers will pay more for good service and quality but only to a certain point. Halcyon is well past that point and is trading on name recognition and snob appeal, but that effect will not last long and they will eventually have to reduce prices or lose a significant portion of their market share.

Internet sales are perhaps the biggest threat facing local dive shops as in many states the customer avoids sales tax on top of the discount offerred by a large internet retailer not faced with the challenges of small volume sales and relativley high showroom maintainence costs. This further increases the price disparity so controlling internet sales becomes critical, particularly for dealers with fair trade policies.