Halcyon BCD

[Dan Gibson]

Basically, you get what you pay for. Theoretically, that is supposed to be added service that most dive shops can't or won't deliver. Whether or not this really happens, depends on how well Halcyon (or other similar manufacturers) did in picking a store that will live up to their expectations.

The Chicago School of Economics disagrees with you. They will argue that it is more likely that manufacturers of higher-end or speciality products can provide the best over-all benefit to the consumer through resale price maintenance. The manufacturer wants its products sold by qualified, competent distributors who will provide premium pre-sale and after-sale service to the consumer. To ensure that these distributors will be motivated to sell your high-priced product, the manufacturer will assure the distributors that a consumer will not be able to buy the same product from a priice-cutting distributor who has not made the same investment. That way consumers get serviced by knowledgable distributors before and after the sale.

This ties in with the eternal LDS vs. mail order debate. There is a definite cost to the LDS from people who go into the shop to learn all about a product they are interested in, then order the product from a cheaper mail order source. In this circumstance, the shop essentially paid for part of the mail-order source's costs of sale, and got nothing for it. This discourages the LDS from offering products that are easily available elsewhere at a significant discount. So if you want a shop to carry your merchandise, you may want to impose some form of resale price maintenance. The products then will end up in the hands of consumers at the fairest over-all price.

The economists also note that competitive pressures will prevent a manufacturer from imposing resale prices that are too high. If the prices are too high, consumers will buy a competitive product. You can see this process happening with Halcyon. Just in the last couple of years, rivals like Oxycheq have seen the opportunity to make money selling comparable products below Halcyon's prices. Halcyon has been forced to pay attention to these competitors and come out with new and improved products in order to maintain its market share. It may be forced to lower its prices as well if enough competitors offer superior products at lower prices.

Anyways, even if you disagree with the necessity for resale price maintenance, and I generally do, there are reasonable arguments to support it.

 

[trob09]

The Chicago School of Economics disagrees with you. They will argue that it is more likely that manufacturers of higher-end or speciality products can provide the best over-all benefit to the consumer through resale price maintenance. The manufacturer wants its products sold by qualified, competent distributors who will provide premium pre-sale and after-sale service to the consumer. To ensure that these distributors will be motivated to sell your high-priced product, the manufacturer will assure the distributors that a consumer will not be able to buy the same product from a priice-cutting distributor who has not made the same investment. That way consumers get serviced by knowledgable distributors before and after the sale.

What the econimists at CSE fail to recognize is that not all consumers desire or require pre-sale education or after-the-sale service. Those consumers are forced to pay a premium for services they neither want nor use.

This ties in with the eternal LDS vs. mail order debate. There is a definite cost to the LDS from people who go into the shop to learn all about a product they are interested in, then order the product from a cheaper mail order source. In this circumstance, the shop essentially paid for part of the mail-order source's costs of sale, and got nothing for it. This discourages the LDS from offering products that are easily available elsewhere at a significant discount. So if you want a shop to carry your merchandise, you may want to impose some form of resale price maintenance. The products then will end up in the hands of consumers at the fairest over-all price.

price-fixing is not a long-term solution to radical change in the market. the internet has introduced new distribution channels and communication tools. It would be better for manufacturers and LDS' to embrace technology and market advances rather than try to stymie it.

The economists also note that competitive pressures will prevent a manufacturer from imposing resale prices that are too high. If the prices are too high, consumers will buy a competitive product. You can see this process happening with Halcyon. Just in the last couple of years, rivals like Oxycheq have seen the opportunity to make money selling comparable products below Halcyon's prices. Halcyon has been forced to pay attention to these competitors and come out with new and improved products in order to maintain its market share. It may be forced to lower its prices as well if enough competitors offer superior products at lower prices.

But this is different from true consumer choice. the option of buying Oxycheq or another brand - while there - is different from buying a product without the value-added pre and post sale service. Lower-cost competition _may_ encourage halcyon to reconsider set prices but it does not promote retailer or consumer advantage.

Anyways, even if you disagree with the necessity for resale price maintenance, and I generally do, there are reasonable arguments to support it.

 

[FrankF]

Holy hijack, Batman!

 

[Dan Gibson]

They are not "forced". They can buy another brand or nothing at all.

What the econimists at CSE fail to recognize is that not all consumers desire or require pre-sale education or after-the-sale service. Those consumers are forced to pay a premium for services they neither want nor use.

 

[WJL]

What the econimists at CSE fail to recognize is that not all consumers desire or require pre-sale education or after-the-sale service. Those consumers are forced to pay a premium for services they neither want nor use.

Of course they thought of that. The theory takes that into account. If enough consumers refuse to pay the premium, then the manufacturer attempting to impose price maintenace will be forced out of the market.

price-fixing is not a long-term solution to radical change in the market. the internet has introduced new distribution channels and communication tools. It would be better for manufacturers and LDS' to embrace technology and market advances rather than try to stymie it.

Actually price maintenance is an effective long term strategy. That's why hordes of manufacterers use that distribution model.

It's one thing to declare that people should embrace new technology, and another thing to implement it. Just what do you want the LDSs to do? Be the unpaid showrooms for internet retailers? How do they survive doing that? If you want a physical store that you can walk into, look at stuff and get help from, you're going to have to pay for it one way or another.

But this is different from true consumer choice. the option of buying Oxycheq or another brand - while there - is different from buying a product without the value-added pre and post sale service. Lower-cost competition _may_ encourage halcyon to reconsider set prices but it does not promote retailer or consumer advantage.

Being a capitalist at heart, I think that this is where market forces do their best work. If potential competitors see that enough consumers will buy backplates without pre- or post-sale service, then they will get into that market. If enough consumers agree that there is no benefit to them to buying high-priced Halcyon backplates, then Halcyon will have to change its pricing structure or else go out of the backplate business. The market reacts to provide most consumers with what they want, at the price they want to pay.

The ole "invisible hand" of the market still works, even in the internet age. That's not to say that every individual consumer will be happy. What will be maximized is the average consumer happiness level.

 

[Flamebug818]

hi i got the halycon pioneer 36 lb for christmas and could not be happier.
great, comfortable and looks like it would take a bullet,
if you want to get in to tech latter this is a bp that will expand to meet ur need
cheers
flamebug

 

[jplacson]

Currently using the Pioneer 27. Hopefully will be upgrading to the Eclipse 30 soon!

 

[Flamebug818]

Holy hijack, Batman!

right u are

 

[Stirling]

I don't think many people came to this thread for a discussion of resale price maintenance or the like (I know I didn't), but there is one point that might help clarify what is actually going on in the marketplace and that has some bearing on this discussion.

I don't have any inside information, but I am confident that Halcyon does not have a resale price maintenance policy, because if it did it would like be violating the antitrust laws. More likely, it has a Minumum Advertised Price (MAP) policy, which says that no retailer can ADVERTISE a price lower than the minimum. Properly drafted MAP policies do not violate the antitrust laws precisely because, once a dealer is talking to a customer, these policies allow the dealer to strike any bargain it wants to, at any price. From my shopping around for Halcyon products, I believe that is the kind of policy that Halcyon (and some others) have actually adopted. It does restrict competition on the basis of price - you can't quickly search out the lowest cost provider of a Halcyon product - but it doesn't completely prevent competition on price if you make the effort to shop around.

Here is a description of Garmin's MAP policy, which explains how it actually works:

"Garmin has established a Minimum Advertised Price for selected Garmin products. Advertising for these products must contain a price not less than the Minimum Advertised Price set forth in the current Garmin price list. Any information relating to Garmin products on an Internet Website is considered to be advertising for the purposes of this policy. Electronic mail sent in response to a customer inquiry is not considered to be advertising. This policy only concerns advertised prices, and does not relate to actual sales price of any item."

I'm new to the board and to this overly busy technology, so please forgive me if I have screwed up this post. And now I will return to my search for an answer to my own Halcyon question. Ciao.

 

[PatH]

...but I am confident that Halcyon does not have a resale price maintenance policy, because if it did it would like be violating the antitrust laws...

I noticed over a year ago that Halcyon removed any mention of Fair Trade Pricing from their website (at least as far as I could find). I'm not sure about American Law but I'm reasonably positive that their FTP at the time was contrary to Canadian antitrust laws.