"Guided" 200' dive with a single AL80?

[drbill]

Agree with Porsc re: PADI standards in that I could not have been diving the first 6-7 years because PADI didn't exist when I started diving. I was eventually certified by LA County which also taught those who went on to form PADI, NAUI and other agencies. And "training" certainly does not need to be under the auspices of PADI or any of the "common" certifying agencies.

As for diving to 200' on a single tank, as I said earlier... just NOT going there.

 

[porsc]

yeah, it's all good Mike.

but the point that gets most overlooked, in my opinion, is that in the american region, the media reports every little thing that happens in every industry. and everything is about money and recognition.

in the south pacific, they couldn't care less about publishing their traditional teachings. as a matter of fact, they are pretty much against it. and they teach only those who are willing to come and show their dedication by living there and earning the respect of those who have the experience to teach. money and recognition are not their motivation, unlike the agencies in this region.
so everyone has there experiences, and lessons learned. but, the lessons that are learned by gaining real life experiences, are always better than any information that you get from some book. you can read a million books about diving, but only through making the actual dives in different types of environments, can you actually become a better diver. there is no better education than experience!


and Scuba_Vixen, the reason i didn't dive the cane bay wall, is because i was told that it was a good taxi ride to get out there, and that they would charge us a big fee to get there and back. so we dived with a shop called dive adventure, i think. and if i am not mistaken, we went west at salt river. there were tons of giant tube sponges, and all sorts of soft corals. the vis wasn't so great, but where i work in st thomas, i rarely get a chance to go deeper than 50', so getting some depth felt great.
i work with dive world, and yes, they not only are NOT tech friendly, they don't even do nitrox! i hate it. i would really love to get tech certified. i was able to do a tech experience dive once in the philippines, but that was it, and many years ago. but i loved it, although i felt very clumsey with all the equipment. so maybe we can hook up in the near future, and work something out. do you fly up on the sea planes, or do you take the ferry?

 

[MikeFerrara]

yeah, it's all good Mike.

but the point that gets most overlooked, in my opinion, is that in the american region, the media reports every little thing that happens in every industry. and everything is about money and recognition.

in the south pacific, they couldn't care less about publishing their traditional teachings. as a matter of fact, they are pretty much against it. and they teach only those who are willing to come and show their dedication by living there and earning the respect of those who have the experience to teach. money and recognition are not their motivation, unlike the agencies in this region.
so everyone has there experiences, and lessons learned. but, the lessons that are learned by gaining real life experiences, are always better than any information that you get from some book. you can read a million books about diving, but only through making the actual dives in different types of environments, can you actually become a better diver. there is no better education than experience!

I'm not sure what you're getting at. I was just pointing out that cave diving, including US cave diving has been a significant driving force in many diving inovations. I'm not sure what that has to do with the difference between experience and book learning.

 

[firemedic1015]

i work with dive world, and yes, they not only are NOT tech friendly, they don't even do nitrox! i hate it. i would really love to get tech certified. i was able to do a tech experience dive once in the philippines, but that was it, and many years ago.

 

[RS]

Pass the popcorn.

 

[UnderSeaBumbleBee]

No worse than having a little too much christmas cheer and driving home on a freeway @ 75 mph in a 2 ton vehicle...which I suspect most of us are guilty of at one time or another -eh?

For the record, I NEVER EVER EVER drink and drive. Most of us are not guilty of recklessly putting others lives in danger. And the problem with your statement above is that you know you are a risk to others, but you really don't care.

It doesn't bring others much Christmas cheer when you injure or kill them.

A drunk driver totally destroyed my car a couple of years ago. I had just stepped out of my parked car and walked to my office. A few seconds earlier and he would have spread me on the pavement like soft butter on hot bread. Oh and then he had the nerve to tell the cop it was my fault.

If you want to dive deep on air or break all sorts of dive safety protocol—that is one thing, but PLEASE PLEASE STAY OFF THE ROAD IF YOU HAVE BEEN DRINKING! Drunks usually survive the crash—it is most often those that they hit that are killed.

 

[MikeFerrara]

For the record, I NEVER EVER EVER drink and drive. Most of us are not guilty of recklessly putting others lives in danger. And the problem with your statement above is that you know you are a risk to others, but you really don't care.

It doesn't bring others much Christmas cheer when you injure or kill them.

A drunk driver totally destroyed my car a couple of years ago. I had just stepped out of my parked car and walked to my office. A few seconds earlier and he would have spread me on the pavement like soft butter on hot bread. Oh and then he had the nerve to tell the cop it was my fault.

Bad driving is dangerous and I spend enough time on the expressways and toll roads to know that there are plenty of bad drivers. I almost got it twice on the way home from the Chicago area the other night. It was almost like they were trying to get someone. I don't know if they were drunk or not and I don't care. Somehow, we've come to the point where bad driving is ok as long as the bad driver isn't drinking. Last I checked, dead is dead but for some reason if the killer is sober and just a bad driver, it's an accident but if they had a drink it's a crime.

In fact, they had such a problem correlating "drunk" driving with bad driving that most states just have a blood count limit and they have to look for reasons to check people that are driving just fine. LOL, now why should you get arrested when you're driving well? LOL

If you want to dive deep on air or break all sorts of dive safety protocol—that is one thing, but PLEASE PLEASE STAY OFF THE ROAD IF YOU HAVE BEEN DRINKING! Drunks usually survive the crash—it is most often those that they hit that are killed.

I say, please stay off the road if you aren't any good at driving. I don't much care why you're a bad driver.

Somehow we're at the same place in diving. Diving narced is bad but no one thinks much about all the un-narced lousy diving. LOL but the result can be the same.

 

[porsc]

I think you misunderstood me, mike. I actually wasn’t trying to prolong the debate. What I was saying is that having specific certificates from some money hungry agency isn't the end all be all of training.
Most of the innovations in diving have come from people using techniques that go well beyond what most agencies will allow. And a lot of our training for years and years in the south pacific was about diving the techniques day in and day out, not looking at some book, or practicing in some pool.
So while I have only used tech equipment once in my life, that doesn’t mean that, I don’t have deep diving experience. I have well over 5,000 logged dives, and I haven’t regularly logged dives for more than nine or ten years. And as I have mentioned earlier, a great percentage of my diving while living and working in the south pacific, was spent doing dives deeper than 150’.
I wasn’t meaning to ruffle anyone’s feathers, here. But after living and working in the south pacific for so long, and now living and working back in the North American region, that in comparison, the south pacific as a whole is well ahead in diving. This isn’t an insult to America, just a fact of life. I am American, and love my country as the best in the world. But facts are facts. And unless you have lived and worked in both, it is hard to give a qualified opinion.
Again, I don’t mean any of this to be offensive to anyone. But I don’t work a regular job, and do the instructor thing on the side. I work as a dive instructor as my profession. This is what I do every single day. I usually work in a country for a year or two, and then I move to another country. And so by just working every day with all of the north American divers, who come down here, justifies my point, when I compare them to the divers I worked with in the south pacific. especially with the certified divers, the training, the skill and technique used by both are very different.
finally, i hope this doesn't come off in the wrong way. I am not trying to promote myself, just trying to explain my original comments. My original point is that this thread seems a little over protective to me. With good air conservation and a multilevel dive profile, you can dive with a single 80, to 200' safely, and with out rushing back up. We have been doing it for years.

 

[MikeFerrara]

I think you misunderstood me, mike. I actually wasn’t trying to prolong the debate. What I was saying is that having specific certificates from some money hungry agency isn't the end all be all of training.
Most of the innovations in diving have come from people using techniques that go well beyond what most agencies will allow. And a lot of our training for years and years in the south pacific was about diving the techniques day in and day out, not looking at some book, or practicing in some pool.
So while I have only used tech equipment once in my life, that doesn’t mean that, I don’t have deep diving experience. I have well over 5,000 logged dives, and I haven’t regularly logged dives for more than nine or ten years. And as I have mentioned earlier, a great percentage of my diving while living and working in the south pacific, was spent doing dives deeper than 150’.
I wasn’t meaning to ruffle anyone’s feathers, here. But after living and working in the south pacific for so long, and now living and working back in the North American region, that in comparison, the south pacific as a whole is well ahead in diving. This isn’t an insult to America, just a fact of life. I am American, and love my country as the best in the world. But facts are facts. And unless you have lived and worked in both, it is hard to give a qualified opinion.
Again, I don’t mean any of this to be offensive to anyone. But I don’t work a regular job, and do the instructor thing on the side. I work as a dive instructor as my profession. This is what I do every single day. I usually work in a country for a year or two, and then I move to another country. And so by just working every day with all of the north American divers, who come down here, justifies my point, when I compare them to the divers I worked with in the south pacific. The training, the skill and technique used by both are very different.

I think I understand your point and, for the record, my feathers aren't ruffled. It does kind of sound like you're basing your statement on US tourist divers though. That's underwater tourism, it isn't diving. Hang out in cave country for a while and get to know some people and see what you think.

 

[Tigerman]

Bad driving is dangerous and I spend enough time on the expressways and toll roads to know that there are plenty of bad drivers. I almost got it twice on the way home from the Chicago area the other night. It was almost like they were trying to get someone. I don't know if they were drunk or not and I don't care. Somehow, we've come to the point where bad driving is ok as long as the bad driver isn't drinking. Last I checked, dead is dead but for some reason if the killer is sober and just a bad driver, it's an accident but if they had a drink it's a crime.

In fact, they had such a problem correlating "drunk" driving with bad driving that most states just have a blood count limit and they have to look for reasons to check people that are driving just fine. LOL, now why should you get arrested when you're driving well? LOL

I say, please stay off the road if you aren't any good at driving. I don't much care why you're a bad driver.

Somehow we're at the same place in diving. Diving narced is bad but no one thinks much about all the un-narced lousy diving. LOL but the result can be the same.

I actually read about DUI and car accidents and deaths the other day and a bad driver are still very unlikely to cause an accident compared to a drunken driver...
at .05-.1 your risk of dieing in a car accident is increased thirteen times and at .1-.15 a hundred times higher risk than if youre sober.
In Norway 22% of the killed drivers was intoxicated on alcohol and 30% on other drugs (2001-2002).
So, next time you check, maybe you want to consider that dead is just dead or if dead could actually have been avoided in the first place.

Of course, you also have the issue of bad AND drunken drivers as well as bad AND narced divers..