GUE Practitioners...Convince Me

[Scott L]

I know people may scoff at this statement (since diving is an absolute money pit) but the sheer cost of GUE training is almost prohibitively expensive, especially considering the huge cost of equipment alone.

Before you can may begin GUE Cave 1 you must complete the requirements and standards of a tech pass within a GUE Fundamendals class. After taking this class, you will have a much better idea of whether GUE is a match for your personality, physical fitness and overall goals. Folks decent upon High Springs from all over the world for training based upon attraction rather than promotion. You are fortunately in that you live only a few hundred miles away, at the most.

With regard to cost, after you take a GUE class, you will likely wonder why the instructor would work so hard for the total amount received from the class participants. I certainly would not...

 

[nadwidny]

Best instruction I have ever had in my 30ish years of diving has been through GUE when I took my cave 1 and 2. You may find a good instructor with other agencies. You will find a great instructor with GUE.

 

[birdwrasse]

just take the regular cave from which ever agency... follow sheck's fundamental rules: training, guide line, depth rules, gas management, and backup lights... don't break the rules...!!!

 

[gsk3]

I'm going to echo Mitch's point about costs. The biggest cost to going GUE is that you can't do it as incrementally--the jumps are usually bigger. I'll give examples from the tech curriculum since that's what I know:

Tech 1 - $1,750
vs.
AN/DP $800-900 + Rec triox $500-700: Less complete, not much less expensive
or
AN/DP + Trimix $1600-2000: Arguably more complete (usually 2-bottle), more expensive or the same

Note that I'm not counting the cost of Fundies, since frankly you should take that regardless of whether you intend to continue in the GUE curriculum. And the prices listed aren't the cheapest in the area--they're prices from the instructors whom I'd otherwise take the course from if I didn't decide to continue down the GUE path.

Equipment costs are negligible in this discussion--if you're diving caves, you're going to want to have a fairly similar setup. Honestly I think the minimalist philosophy saves money when compared to other tech setups...there's no need to buy the new hotness. Cave line is cheap, whereas all those fancy clips and retainers add up. No need to buy things with an H on them, although there are a few things that I won't buy from anyone else anymore after learning the hard way.

As far as why to go GUE, you should just read the Fundamentals of Better Diving by Jablonski (and add another con to your list...the founding cult leader has a funny name). Or read Peter's thread here for other people's reasons for starting down the path:
http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/dir/394339-why-did-you-take-plan-take-gue-fundies.html#post6028548

To me, it's a system where everything just makes sense. As I grow in the types of dives I do, I discover that someone had already thought of problems I didn't yet know I would have. For instance, when I took my OW training, I remember my instructors discussing the various ways that one could sling a pony bottle, and my impression was that for most people it takes a few dives and some practice to even start to get comfortable with it. By contrast, when I first clipped on an AL40, my reaction was, "Oh, that's what goes there." The space had always been clear on my left side, I just hadn't been putting anything there yet.

Finally, my understanding is that few people indeed take the "3" classes, and getting involved at some of the bigger projects is more about getting through Tech 1 or Cave 2 and doing some dives as a support diver.

 

[MonkSeal]

just take the regular cave from which ever agency... follow sheck's fundamental rules: training, guide line, depth rules, gas management, and backup lights... don't break the rules...!!!

I'm not sure if you know what you're talking about ...

 

[Crush]

Given the number of responses and those who responded, I am shocked that I get to be the first one to say it! How exciting!

It's not the agency, it's the instructor!​

Having said that, I'd like to make some other comments:

• I do not consider myself to be DIR/GUE but I did (barely) pass Fundies (rec pass);
• I have taken a few courses with other agencies - those courses were good, but Fundies kicked my a$$ (see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/basic-scuba-discussions/385289-fundies-kicked-my.html ). This is both good and bad: good because I was really pushed; bad because I don't think that I will be progressing any further towards tech - at least, not for a long time;
• Once you take a GUE/DIR course you will be accused of being a zealot (see http://www.scubaboard.com/forums/ba...u-really-know-how-scuba-dive.html#post5976034 )
• Once you take a GUE/DIR course and pass you may find a larger pool of dive buddies. You may also find that some of your old dive buddies expect you to have developed a condescending attitude towards them if they aren't GUE/DIR;
• I had an excellent Cavern instructor who was not GUE/DIR (he was NACD);
• While it is true that "it's not the agency, it's the instructor," I can say that only in GUE Fundies was my certification withheld until I completed a course and instructor feedback survey. They appear to take the quality of their instruction very seriously;

 

[ScubaFeenD]

I have noticed that several dive sites require "full cave" certification prior to diving at that site. Which level of GUE training would be considered equivalent to "full cave" because when I looked at some of the topics covered by the courses, "Cave 3" appears to be way more in depth than most of the topics covered in a "full cave" course. Is this an accurate assessment?

The way GUE teaches Cave, Cave 1 seems to be simply an intro level course, but the description of Cave 2 is a bit beyond what a full cave course includes--you should try reading the standards the NSS-CDS has and compare them to GUEs standards. Cave 3 is way beyond that, and you can read a bit about it here: http://dir-diver.com/pdf/exploring_cave_3.pdf

Intense is a poor adjective for GUE courses and you really get what you pay for. And sometimes, you have to pay to play; Saving a few hundred dollars by skimping on training doesnt really seem like saving to me.

 

[Peter Guy]

Nadw wrote

You may find a good instructor with other agencies. You will find a great instructor with GUE.

I must take exception to this statement.

I have only taken one GUE class so I have direct teaching experience with only one GUE instructor (OTOH, I have taken classes from a couple of ex-GUE instructors so perhaps that counts, but who knows).

I have also watched people take classes from other GUE instructors (and been involved in "support" of those in the classes).

While it may be true that GUE instructors have a higher "base level" of training, this is still a case of "it is the instructor AND the agency" not just the instructor nor just the agency.

Brian, I'd change your statement to the following:

You may find a good instructor with other agencies. You may find a great instructor with GUE who fits your educational needs.

Not every GUE instructor works for every student.

 

[JeffG]

Not every GUE instructor works for every student.

Its the students fault.

 

[RTodd]

Here's another question...

How difficult would it be to get into exploration as a non-GUE diver? If I decided to try to join a group like WKPP that required GUE certification, is there some sort of bridge program for experienced divers? I know people may scoff at this statement (since diving is an absolute money pit) but the sheer cost of GUE training is almost prohibitively expensive, especially considering the huge cost of equipment alone.

If the cost delta between GUE training and other agencies is a significant issue for you, don't take up cave diving yet. The most important money you will spend is on quality training. All the other garbage people sink money into early in their diving careers - the latest computer, triple split fins, just end up rotting in your garage enventually anyway. Take fundamentals and see if it is for you. You will at least know if you are prepared for cave training.