GUE or IANTD

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

You seem to be mixing up different types of insurance and I don't understand what you're trying to say. There is diving accident insurance, travel insurance, life insurance, and disability insurance (among others). The policies that I have don't mention anything about certification agencies or depth limits. Perhaps insurance policies work differently where you are.

Trip organizer requirements for participation are a separate issue. I understand that some trip organizers might require participants to dive within certification limits in order to limit their own liability and weed out divers who are totally unqualified. But if a student is looking to get a certain depth limit number on a card just so that they can participate in a trip then they're really looking at the issue backwards.

What I'm trying to say is that agency choice might be impacted by factors that are completely unrelated to actual training quality and OP needs to take that into account, and tried to provide few examples. Last time I checked, most income protection insurance in the UK did not cover anything beyond recreational diving - US might be different. There is a single company that can insure you for cave or CCR diving but only within your training limits. Depending on your personal circumstances, you might wish to stay within those limits.

If I want to dive Malin Head, which has general depths between 60 - 70 meters, I can get the same (good) training with the same instructor who teaches for TDI and IANTD. For the same level of skills, I can get either a TDI paper that "certifies" me to 60 meters, or an IANTD paper that "certifies" me to 70 meters. Same training, same course. Hence the vast majority of UK divers try to get Mod2 with IANTD, to specifically go dive Malin Head.

OP might be in a similar position and pick training that fits their own personal circumstances.

 

[BoltSnap]

Are you guys done gue worshipping yet?

 

[Lorenzoid]

I have not reviewed any GUE materials, but the IANTD manuals are terrible. My experience and the training received with IANTD instructors has been excellent, but the material they are provided to work with and provide to their students is the worst I have seen from any of the agencies I have been certified under. (PADI, IANTD, SDI, TDI).

My IANTD Intro-to-Cave instructor (who also teaches for other agencies) had me read Tom Mount's "The Tao of Cave Diving," which I understood to be the student materials for the course. In the course, he never directly referred to anything from that book, and I did not ask him about it. I suspect the core of what he taught his students who signed up through IANTD was exactly the same as the core of what he taught his students who were signed up through other agencies; I suspect the only significant difference is the name of the agency on the card. I have not taken a trimix course, so I can't comment.

I could not shake the weird vibe I got from Tao of Cave Diving, and I soon backtracked and took Cave 1 from GUE. Although there are certain things GUE wants you to learn to do a certain way (which felt reassuring), both courses taught me the same core material. The GUE written materials are adequate and clear. The IANTD instructor explained that some divers do X this way and others do X that way, and in time I can figure out which way I prefer. The GUE instructor said "we do X this way" and explained why the other ways are not preferred. Again, not having taken a trimix course, I have no idea if that is a different story.

I would also take into account who my prospective dive buddies might be, in deciding whether to continue on a GUE path or go with a different agency. Where I dive, there is a large GUE presence. However, if that had not been the case, and prospective dive buddies were not GUE-trained, then I might not have gone the GUE route.

 

[Wibble]

But if a student is looking to get a certain depth limit number on a card just so that they can participate in a trip then they're really looking at the issue backwards.

for all dive trips you need the right skills and experience. As you progress to deeper technical dives on CCR, you should have the capability to be honest with yourself.

The arbitrary limits imposed by the meaningless certifications are just that, arbitrary. What’s the difference between diving at 60m/200ft or 61m/203ft3inches? A gnats tadger more bailout, but realistically no difference at all… except for the insurance company and ambulance chasing swines.

When signing up for any form of pinnacle dive trip you—and only you—are responsible for your own dive skills, just in the same way as you are responsible for your kit.

It’s that self sufficiency mantra as usual for all diving.

 

[Nick_Radov]

for all dive trips you need the right skills and experience. As you progress to deeper technical dives on CCR, you should have the capability to be honest with yourself.

The arbitrary limits imposed by the meaningless certifications are just that, arbitrary. What’s the difference between diving at 60m/200ft or 61m/203ft3inches? A gnats tadger more bailout, but realistically no difference at all… except for the insurance company and ambulance chasing swines.

Agreed.

When signing up for any form of pinnacle dive trip you—and only you—are responsible for your own dive skills, just in the same way as you are responsible for your kit.

It’s that self sufficiency mantra as usual for all diving.

I think we may have to agree to disagree on that point. The other members of the integrated team — including dive buddies and boat crew or surface support — share responsibility for every diver's skills and equipment. We don't want to get caught up in a safety incident because another diver was too eager or didn't fully appreciate the risks. And I might need someone's help to manage my own emergency if I screw up or have an equipment failure. This is the basis for "Rule #1".

 

[Tobias24]

Guys, I didn't ask an insurance question here. I live in Germany and the legal situation there is completely different.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Guys, I didn't ask an insurance question here. I live in Germany and the legal situation there is completely different.

It might help if you describe what’s your current level, what type of places do you aspire to dive, what and how people around you dive and what equipment do you have .

For example, you might not even be able to afford GUE diving. T1 OC diving on trimix is not cheap, turning JJ into GUE config is not cheap and not all sites can even rent you the right cylinders if you decide to travel, shops might only give you stock CCR gear. Or maybe you are filthy rich, can keep diving OC T1/2 dives and pay the dive costs of your team? Who knows. That’s a factor.

Otherwise you will keep getting GUE worshippers, IANTD bashers and weirdly specific advice on Malin Head …

 

[happy-diver]

I fell in love with the logo coming on thirty years ago makes me sick not the logo

I mean you wouldn't dive with an ugly regulator

 

[Tobias24]

I'm from Munich and dive in the lakes there. I go on holiday all over the world, what's important to me are wrecks. Whether in Norway or Egypt, Malta... There are two Tec 1 divers near me. My buddy is a sidemount diver who is now perhaps doing his first trimix course. Filling the tanks is no problem with trimix. My wife doesn't dive, which is why I'd like to give up most of my holiday days for a holiday together. But 1-2 weeks a year for diving is no problem.

 

[ginti]

I'm from Munich and dive in the lakes there. I go on holiday all over the world, what's important to me are wrecks. Whether in Norway or Egypt, Malta... There are two Tec 1 divers near me. My buddy is a sidemount diver who is now perhaps doing his first trimix course. Filling the tanks is no problem with trimix. My wife doesn't dive, which is why I'd like to give up most of my holiday days for a holiday together. But 1-2 weeks a year for diving is no problem.

There are more than 2 T1 divers in your area, I am one of them - although true, there are not many. Maybe we have already met

Feel free to send me a DM if you want.

About IANTD vs GUE for training:

1. If you want to go for the GUE path, go GUE.
2. If you are unsure whether you want to stick with GUE in the future, go GUE - you can always switch to IANTD later on (by the way, you in theory can switch from IANTD to GUE, it's just usually hard to do due to the discrepancy in training).
3. If you don't care about the path, but you are unsure of the quality of the instructor(s) you know, go GUE.
4. If you don't care about the path, and you are 100% SURE the IANTD instructor(s) you know is(are) top-notch, choose whatever is more convenient.
5. If you are sure your future path is going to be incompatible with GUE, spend as much time as you can finding a top-notch instructor from whatever other agency, and go for this non-GUE top instructor.

That easy

By the way, you don't know what you don't know; in other words, you may think the instructors you know are good, but in reality, you have no experience enough to judge them. If you have even a little doubt, and you don't dive with very accomplished divers who can guide you, you are actually on point 3 in the previous list: stick with GUE

Why are so many options in favor of GUE? Because this agency ensures pretty high standards for the instructors, so everything you need to do is to have a chat, and if you like the personality you cannot be too much wrong. With most other agencies (not all of them), the technical quality is not ensured, so even if your personalities align, you may fall pretty bad (except if you are sure the instructor is great -there are of course many great instructors with ANY agency).

EDIT: Another big question is: are you sure you don't care about the path?