GUE or IANTD

[Redtwo]

What you're describing sounds more like UTD than GUE, so I just wanted to clarify so it doesn't give a wrong impression. I just finished GUE T1, and we planned all our dives with the DecoPlanner software. It is true that during the class we set our computers to gauge mode to practice keeping track of bottom time, average depth and memorizing our deco shedules (which we also had written down in our wetnotes). We also had plans for shorter/longer, shallower/deeper dives. This was done to increase awareness and mental capacity, and to show we can use the computer as a tool instead of following it blindly. However, we also discussed the benefits of using computers, and how to use them for tech dives. We did not do a lot of calculation in our heads, other than keeping track of bottom time and guesstimating average depth (which we could verify on the computer). By taking time in the planning phase to look at different profiles and their deco, we were taught to look for simple mathematical relationships we could use to adjust the plan in a pinch, but that was not the primary way we planned or executed dives.

In short, I'd say that GUE emphasizes planning and being aware of how changes in the dive plan affects your deco schedule, while using the computer as a tool for added safety. And being more aware of the dive profiles and how they affect deco, helps you maked informed decisions to adjust the exposure to the individual diver and the team. Also standard gases makes planning and executing tech dives a lot easier, and gives familiarity with typical profiles and deco schedules. So: Plan the dive, and dive the plan - BUT know how and when to adjust the plan if needed.

Thx for the clarification! As always more nuanced than i had understood.

 

[Nick_Radov]

However, if you are on a CCR at the moment and need mod2, you can do mod2 with IANTD that gives you a 70 meter ticket so you can dive some pretty sweet wrecks and still be insured.

Which insurance? DAN insurance has nothing to do with IANTD or GUE certification. Dive professional liability insurance is a separate issue, but that wouldn't apply to the question in this thread.

 

[Nick_Radov]

yes, I have a Tech Pass. But with travel, a Tec 1 easily costs €4000 and the ADV rec Trimix+ only €1800, and I don't have to travel.

Tech diving is so expensive now that a €2200 difference gets lost in the noise after a few years. A better way to approach the issue is to decide what makes sense for you in terms of goals, safety, and teammates. Then save up to do things the right way instead of trying to rush and cut corners to save money. The same dive sites will still be there in a couple years.
Some instructors are willing to travel, so if you have local dive buddies who want to take the same course then it can sometimes be cheaper to have the instructor come to you.

 

[Tracy]

That's a bit harsh - it depends on the franchise. IANTD UK had some of the best instructors in Europe/world in the past 10 years. On the other hand, IANTD CE (which bought out the UK franchise a couple months ago) had multiple scandals involving students killed by instructors who did not follow even common sense...

By the way GUE does occasionally slip too. I know a GUE diver with a Fundies Tech pass who could not breath or swim underwater without a mask less than a month after the course.

Have you read the actual standards? Did you practice yoga and tantric breathing during your course? I'm not saying they are skipping things that are important, just saying that nobody is following the actual written standards. Some of them are a bit out there.

 

[mr_v]

What you're describing sounds more like UTD than GUE, so I just wanted to clarify so it doesn't give a wrong impression. I just finished GUE T1, and we planned all our dives with the DecoPlanner software. It is true that during the class we set our computers to gauge mode to practice keeping track of bottom time, average depth and memorizing our deco shedules (which we also had written down in our wetnotes). We also had plans for shorter/longer, shallower/deeper dives. This was done to increase awareness and mental capacity, and to show we can use the computer as a tool instead of following it blindly. However, we also discussed the benefits of using computers, and how to use them for tech dives. We did not do a lot of calculation in our heads, other than keeping track of bottom time and guesstimating average depth (which we could verify on the computer). By taking time in the planning phase to look at different profiles and their deco, we were taught to look for simple mathematical relationships we could use to adjust the plan in a pinch, but that was not the primary way we planned or executed dives.

In short, I'd say that GUE emphasizes planning and being aware of how changes in the dive plan affects your deco schedule, while using the computer as a tool for added safety. And being more aware of the dive profiles and how they affect deco, helps you maked informed decisions to adjust the exposure to the individual diver and the team. Also standard gases makes planning and executing tech dives a lot easier, and gives familiarity with typical profiles and deco schedules. So: Plan the dive, and dive the plan - BUT know how and when to adjust the plan if needed.

I learned all of the things you've mentioned through IANTD. Choose your instructors well.

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Which insurance? DAN insurance has nothing to do with IANTD or GUE certification. Dive professional liability insurance is a separate issue, but that wouldn't apply to the question in this thread.

Travel (think trip curtailment), life and income protection insurance as an example. It is very relevant - you can pass more or less the same training and depending on the agency, end with different depth limits. Trip organizers might also simply say that you need to be qualified to a certain depth to sign up.

IANTD is very popular for Mod2, as it gives you a 70m limit, which means you can dive shallower wrecks in Malin Head that are in the 60-70m range. TDI ticket gives you only 60m for the same training lengths and same skills. There might be similar oddities with other courses and might matter depending on what and where OP wants to dive.

Have you read the actual standards? Did you practice yoga and tantric breathing during your course? I'm not saying they are skipping things that are important, just saying that nobody is following the actual written standards. Some of them are a bit out there.

It’s IANTD, why would you assume that as a student I’m actually able to access course standards? .

I read the students materials which were full of hippie voodoo and bad planning examples…

 

[KevinNM]

Has any GUE intern been awarded instructor status after they have a student become entrapped and drown entering the cave during the course they were running? Does anyone else remember the Fontanazzi Cave death?

 

[DiveLikeAMuppet]

Has any GUE intern been awarded instructor status after they have a student become entrapped and drown entering the cave during the course they were running? Does anyone else remember the Fontanazzi Cave death?

You also forgot about the instructor trainer on that accident getting promoted to regional training director and the famous cave explorer getting kicked out of IANTD for dissenting.

 

[Matan]

What are your experiences with IANTD compared to GUE? I did a Fundi and am now considering doing a Trimix course at IANTD because the instructor lives near me and I don't want to travel. Is that worth it?

Just need clarification - you did GUE Fundies? What I recall after fundies is that I couldn't even consider a different agency over GUE after fundies.

Regarding Travel - Except for fundies I had to fly abroad for all my other GUE classes - Best money I've ever invested in my diving (beats any equipment purchase for example).


Thanks,
Matan.

 

[AJ]

Just need clarification - you did GUE Fundies? What I recall after fundies is that I couldn't even consider a different agency over GUE after fundies.

Regarding Travel - Except for fundies I had to fly abroad for all my other GUE classes - Best money I've ever invested in my diving (beats any equipment purchase for example).


Thanks,
Matan.

Funny, I went the opposite way. I did GUE Fundies (Tech rating) and wanted to proceed with Tech 1. Never came round to that for several reasons and got interested in CCR's while cotmeplating Tech 1. GUE CCR did not fit me for different reasons (mainly the GUE JJ config which I don't like at all). Ended up with some very good IANTD instructors for CCR, DPV and Cave and have been very happy with them.

GUE is good, so is IANTD. They are very different in the way they do things but they both deliver good divers capable of doing the dives. What's most important is what kind of training and way of diving suit you.