GUE Fundamentals

[wetb4igetinthewater]

So if you use a BP/W but a deluxe harness, that’s not good enough? It has to be a single piece of webbing?

I understand it may be a hassle to swap one out. That's why I'm willing to loan a BP/w to anyone taking fundies in Seattle. My Halcyon (which I bought used) canister light too.

 

[mariosx]

Apologies if this isn't the appropriate forum.

I'm not a new diver, but let's say I'm new-ish (about 80 dives total). Just got TDI wreck, advanced nitrox, and deco certified. I'm serious about advancing my skills and dedicating my resources towards that end.

Generally, my core skills are good not great. Breathing actually being the most difficult for me. Anyway I saw a recent r/scuba post where a few folks chimed in about how "transformative" a GUE Fundamentals course can be. After reading up on it on GUE's own site, I like the idea of it.

Curious what anyone's experience has been who's taken GUE Fundamentals.

PART 1

Long long long post. But might worth a read if you have time. I tried to add details that hopefully can help you decide, or have a nice time and outcome from the class.

Backstory:
Got my GUE-F (Rec but close to Tec pass) with under 40 dives and I dove doubles and canister light FOR THE FIRST time in class. I am not saying that to show how of a super-hero diver I am, but the opposite. I sucked big time (I still suck compared to most GUE divers) but in 4 transformative days I was able thanks to the instructor to hover at pin point accuracy, and learn from zero all the skills. According to most, the sooner you get your Fundies, the less bad habbits you have to break and the better you become, and it seems to have worked in my case.
To share some more of my background just to give you a better idea, at the time I was just OW with less thana 40 dives, but I was lucky from the beginning to start from day 1 with BP+W and LH. So I had some minimal experience diving (horribly) in that configuration thanks to an awesome SDI instructor I had. After I got my fundies I was practically forced to go for an AOW in order to get access to some dive sites. I even tried to get some train on doubles+stage to add some challenge but it was a total waste of time.
Thanks to GUE I was transformed into a different person/diver... My "experienced" SDI AOW instructor (a different one due to some minor health issue of my first SDI instructor) was not able to hover without holding on to the line or a shipwreck during the Peak Buoyancy class, at the same time I was sitting motionless next to him. But that was the 20% difference I noticed. The 80% was noticing basic or even serious mistakes (and I mean mistakes, not just non-DIR things) of my instructor during planning and diving. Things that I could not notice, point out, and justify before GUE-F.

Just from this experience I truly feel obligated to "kool-aid boarding" all my close friends (sorry guys!) or worst case make sure that anybody even considering GUE the slighest they are left certain that it is worth it.

I will continue with the negatives and positives of GUE along with some advices I have for the class from my personal experience.

Negatives:

1. You are joining the borg army. Standardization. Standardization. Standardization. Assuming you want to perform a GUE dive, you will be restricted to purchase only a specific range of equipment, with details that sometimes might seem ridiculous (backup lights with non rechargable batteries???). Also you do things in a very specific way, and there are processes you have will expect to follow exactly (Did you dare to check with your right hand if your necklace is working before a V-drill??? That's how divers die... from the instructor. xD). But personally I love this mentality big time. Everything is the same, and everybody is predictable. You know exactly what is happening all the times.
2. You need friends to get the class together, or worst case to dive the GUE way together after the class. This is the main negative of GUE in my opinion... Especially if you drunk the kool-aid like myself, you have the feeling on how awesome on every level is to dive the GUE way, but you might be alone in that random town where the only local scuba club is mostly {enter random popular non-DIR agency}.
3. You might get unreasonable hate from insecure dive professionals. I mean unprovocked toxic comments just because your harness has few more H's than theirs. Don't even consider approaching reddit. That was a major issue I had from the first second with my AOW instructor, were he was bashing GUE in front of everyone before the dive and even more after the dive. I mean ridiculous stuff.
4. That's a personal issue I noticed and I have to get it out there... I cannot enjoy anymore diving with insta-buddies or even watching videos of people diving while being vertical, silting etc. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy a lot diving with friends, no matter their experience, but sitting at Ginnie, watching a mandatory video on how I should dive in or outside the cavern, with divers swimming with their hands and flutterkicking and silting was a bit painful.
5. GUE-EDGE (aka the predive check of GUE) is boring. Yes, I understand that is important. No, I don't skip it. I may or may not thinking of cutting my veins with my dive knife sometimes during the briefing. Seriously though, with GUE-EDGE though you ensure that everything is in place, everyone know their role and every detail possible, that might make the difference between fun and tragedy.
6. Nitrox is more expensive than air, and more rare to find.
7. Your certification expires every 3 years if you do not perform 25 dives at your maximum level.
8. GUE is not accepting smokers.
9. To my understanding, although very rare nowdays, a highly motivated GUE diver, not necesserily instructor can give you a very bad time if you are doing things against the GUE philosophy and procedures. Of course there is a variance and they will not recall your certification if you drink a beer 2 hours after a recreational dive, but I know people that lost all certs for drug abuse and I don't mean instructors. They take every dive seriously and they expect you from you to be an equally good buddy.
10. Expensive when it comes to the total cost for the class, gear, travel and accommodation expenses. But after the class you feel happy because you think that it should have been more expensive, at least the tutoring component.

Positives:

1. You truly enjoy your dives, or at least that's my perspective. Before GUE-F I had no true idea how I need to react in certain cases, how my buddy with react, how I will communicate that to the team, etc. Now in GUE dives I have avery good idea on how to communicate with others, and how to act in every case, thus I can focus on actually not thinking bad scenarios and enjoy the dive.
2. My trim and buoyancy still sucks for GUE standards, but I consider myself being at the top 5% of the divers at my level (AOW), and unfortunatelly I still feel that I hover better than the majority of instructors/dive masters I have dive with, solely thanks to GUE.
3. People come to GUE for the skills, and they stay for the community. Seriously, the community of GUE is like nothing else. I am leaving the US for 2 years for Norway, and in less than a week I spoke in person with 3 awesome GUE divers in Norway (and especially from that town) to assist me on equipment to buy for cold diving, along with offering help with relocation, guiding me through the town, connecting me with others. I cannot imagine in less than a week asking an PADI/SDI/SSI buddy to check if they have divers they trust in a random town of a random small country. Seriously, the GUE people are among the best people I have met, clever, with humor, exremely kind, and respect efford.
4. A GUE insta-buddy is a buddy you can trust blindly 99.999% of the cases. I can go to [enter random country], without speaking [enter random foreign language], and end-up in a boat with 8 others divers and another GUE-diver I met for the first time in my life 1 second before we jump in the water, and my dive will be no different than any other GUE-diver at thie level.

 

[mariosx]

PART 2

Positives:

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5. You are being instructed, and regular interact in many events with some of the top divers in the world, especially cave divers. All of them they will be glad to help you no matter how hopeless of a newbie you are (speaking from personal experience).
6. You get the fundamentals in order to continue towards more interesting certs. I often practice with a firends that is getting ready for C2, while I am still practicing form a Tec upgrade. We both follow the same procedures and practice together. In GUE (at least before going to RB80s) from what I know you don't relearn procedures or equipment, you just append your knowledge and practices.
7. GUE clubs often participate on research projects and excibitions (Project Baseline is a big one). As a GUE diver you get plenty of opportunities (depending on location and certification) to assist such efforts in a way that is not happening anywhere else. People post that they need N divers of X level, and if you reply you are in, no questions asked. They expect that you will do your part though, which is why GUE is so strict in many ways. There is a price to pay for everything.
8. There are many sites in the world, especially caves, that only GUE divers can visit. And I don't mean becoming a WKPP member (with GUE being the only route nowdays) where you have the priviledge to be the only one to dive some caves in Florida, but also as a newbie GUE rec diver like myself. I was fortunate last November to dive certain caverns in cenotes in Quintana Roo in the middle of the jungle in a land that not even the owners have access to. Seriously a non-GUE top cave instructor cannot access these caves, and a newbie like me could just because I got a rec pass in GUE-F. And I mean caves that have not been touched for thousands/millions of years. Ofc during the briefing it was made clear that the slightest silting even in relatively narrow places could be reason to get "very very very mad" at me, but I am not sure which other agency offers this priviledge to their recreational members.
9. Assuming you have a GUE mask strap you extremely easily discard miserable toxic a******s and you can focus interacting to more cool positive people.
10. GUE instructors are rarely just regular scuba instructors. Many of them being top in their field are representing big brands or other organizations, or worst case they have very close friends that do exactly that. In some cases they can assist you during your interaction with the manufacturer, and recommend short cuts not accessible to most. Few days ago, for example, I got in touch with representatives of a drysuit company through my GUE-F instructor to discuss directly with them an issue I had, and they were more than happy to assist me well beyond their responsibilities.
11. You only need a bottom timer for a GUE dive, where for SDI you need a computer. It's a possitive for me that I got a much better understanding on how my computer operates.
12. You truly know and can provide justifications on every detail of your configuration/practices when requested, or... god knows why... someone starts an argument about your setup. I don't think I could do the same before GUE-F, and I am not sure how many dive professionals can do that to a satisfactory level for the gear they are using.
13. You become the best buddy you are able to for your friends (GUE or not) which can some times take care of them even better than other divers or even DMs.

Advise:

1. Search in the GUE site early on for details on the class equipments etc CAREFULLY.
2. You need to have pockets or tech pants with pockets although for some strange reason this is not mentioned in the official prerequisites for the class.
3. Scroll and read Fundies reports of other divers in this forum to get a feeling of the class.
4. Practice swimming even if you think you meet the standards. Swimming submerged for 15+ meters is not very easy for most.
5. Study the GUE material well before the class. Including reading the "Fundamentals for better diving" from our loerd and savior JJ.
6. Communicate with your instructor before the class to ask for any details you think necessary.
7. Try to convince a buddy to take the class together.
8. During the class PAY CLOSE ATTENTION and MAKE QUESTIONS. It is your only opportunity to understand in depth the DIR philosophy and the reasons.
9. The instructors will give you some homework theory or practicing drills. These are not the bare minimum, they expect you do be motivated and do more.
10. DO NOT allow any interferences to your life during these 4 intensive days. Your family/firends/work most probably can wait.
11. TAKE IT SLOWLY. They do not evaluate speed and how confident you are on performing skills fast, but buoyancy and trim. Taking your time can help you a lot. Being hyperactive and trying to perform everything fast, according to my instructors was most probably the main reason I lost the tec pass.
12. Do not focus on passing the class. Focus on bettering your self. Set objective reasonable expectation that you will be happy to accomblish (for me simply hovering was enough). Passing GUE-F is a byproduct. Most probably you will get more from the class that you will hope for, after you see how you objectively are worse than you thought. At least it was for my case.
13. Prepare to run, meaning getting fils everyday the last minute before the the lds closes, dinner, making sure you charge batteries, and all these small things you never thought before the class.
14. Meditate after each class at night and practice to make sure that you have the procedures second nature by the next day.
15. If you don't know/understand something be vocal and let your instructor know. I was the only one that I had neve touched a DSMB. My first deployment was a cluster****, but expected by everybody.
16. Do not overfocus on this, but respect the time of everybody. BE ON TIME. Make sure you don't require a lot of babysitting and that you progress in a reasonable manner. You will share the same water,time, and occasionaly gas with the other students in a very intensive class. Try your best.
17. Even if you are not fully sold on GUE's kool-aid and you have your disagreements, express them as respectful questions in hopes you will get a reasonable examplanation. That worked for me 100% of the time. If not, just be patient on these 4 days and then you can choose by yourself. You are not there to deconvert the GUE instructor or to simply debate the philosophy. If you that's your goal you simply will make everybody angry and waste valuable time. Also the GUE instructors are evaluating you on how accepting you are of the GUE principles. You could be the best diver in the world in the water, and still they might be forced to fail you if you show them repeatedly that you don't value the GUE philosophy. "I think I might start smoking and getting wasted before every dive after GUE-F", "I don't get why people dive in teams. Solo diving is the way. I can't wait to show me how to fix my trim", "Everybody for themselves when **** hits the fan. You are OOA, well you had better check your spg more often", "I dive for 15 years and I know that X is better", are all reasons for an instructor to fail you.
18. Pay attention to the surroundings. You should always be aware of your buddies. Oh, the instructor asked you to perform basic-5 and your buddy is on the side (outside of your field of view) moving their light simulating OOA. You stop and you run to help them, not caring for the grade. The actual skill was S-drill, B-5 was just the setup, and if you are not aware, you fail the skill.
19. If you are performing finning skills you need to ALWAYS remain at the target depth with no variations. That was not communicated well to me initially, and I was following the terrain.
20. You need to have a computer or a bottom counter with seconds accuracy. You can still borrow a computer from another buddy or the instructor if you are leading the ascent, but good to have.
21. Things are said once, and they are repeated louder the second time. The third time you have "the talk" with the instructor. Pay attention.
22. It is expected to be able to understand intuitive signals you have not seen before and repeat the same patterns as the instructor. Keep a clear mind and pay very close attention to the details.

At any point feel free to pm me if you have more questions and you think I could help.

 

[tmassey]

GUE-EDGE (aka the predive check of GUE) is boring. Yes, I understand that is important. No, I don't skip it. I may or may not thinking of cutting my veins with my dive knife sometimes during the briefing. Seriously though, with GUE-EDGE though you ensure that everything is in place, everyone know their role and every detail possible, that might make the difference between fun and tragedy.

I sat through a 20-minute GUE-EDGE standing in the water — after we had briefed everything on-shore! This was before my Fundies class and didn‘t know any better.

Now I know: the problem is not GUE-EDGE; it‘s poorly organized and unfocused divers. Even doing cave dives with twice as much gear, a full GUE-EDGE takes me less than 4 minutes at normal speed — even with full equipment matching.

But yes, I agree: a *poorly done* GUE-EDGE is like waiting in line at the DMV…. It‘s not story time! We’re here to dive, not talk about diving!

 

[ginti]

A canister light is not required for fundies, but it is required for a fundies tech pass.

To be even more precise, you need to own most of the material for the tec pass (and for higher courses). But you don't need to own a canister light; you just need a cordless light with a goodman hold [EDIT: with or without canister is ok, as long as the light satisfy the requirements of battery duration and power output].

However, you need to use a standard canister light for the tec pass (and higher courses) because you need to prove that you can handle the canister well, especially the cord during the sharing gas drill. Therefore, there are three options:
- own a cordless light and ask a friend for the canister one
- own a cordless light and rent the canister one
- buy one canister light
If I remember correctly, there are some requirements for the cordless light in terms of power output and battery duration.

In open water GUE divers will still dive with a primary light, though it may not be a canister light, as light communication (both active and passive) are part of the team dynamics. Even in the technical world, GUE divers may choose a primary light without a canister provided that it is fit for the task at hand in terms of light output and burn time.

A cordless light should be ok even in a cave, as long as the power and battery are sufficient (but, please, check the standards, I don't remember everything by heart - I may make mistakes )

 

[ginti]

@marisosx, excellent post(s), just a few comments to compare my experience.

You are joining the borg army. Standardization. Standardization. Standardization. Assuming you want to perform a GUE dive, you will be restricted to purchase only a specific range of equipment, with details that sometimes might seem ridiculous (backup lights with non rechargable batteries???).

There are reasons for the non-rechargeable batteries; there are some threads here on SB. If you check the voltage of the batteries before any dive, they are superior to rechargeable ones (at least, they were according to @tbone1004 if I remember well what he wrote one or two years ago). I check the voltage any time before a cave dive (rarely in a lake or at sea, but I don't do very aggressive dives - yet)

Also you do things in a very specific way, and there are processes you have will expect to follow exactly (Did you dare to check with your right hand if your necklace is working before a V-drill??? That's how divers die... from the instructor. xD). But personally I love this mentality big time. Everything is the same, and everybody is predictable. You know exactly what is happening all the times.

My opinion: I believe the "right-hand thing" is there because of standardized procedures. I never heard that a person failed a course because of that; in real life, you wouldn't check the regulator, or if you do, nobody cares which hand you use as long as the entire procedure is safe AND fast (yes, using the right-hand makes it slightly faster).

You might get unreasonable hate from insecure dive professionals. I mean unprovocked toxic comments just because your harness has few more H's than theirs. Don't even consider approaching reddit. That was a major issue I had from the first second with my AOW instructor, were he was bashing GUE in front of everyone before the dive and even more after the dive. I mean ridiculous stuff.

Really? It never happened to me... maybe some comments about my drysuit in summer (and, to be honest, they were right - unnecessary for the kind of dives I was doing, but I am not going to buy a wetsuit just for 5/10 dives per year). But maybe I was lucky

That's a personal issue I noticed and I have to get it out there... I cannot enjoy anymore diving with insta-buddies or even watching videos of people diving while being vertical, silting etc. Don't get me wrong, I still enjoy a lot diving with friends, no matter their experience, but sitting at Ginnie, watching a mandatory video on how I should dive in or outside the cavern, with divers swimming with their hands and flutterkicking and silting was a bit painful.

You will not stop noticing bad habits. But, trust me, you will eventually come back to enjoy any instabuddy, except for the dangerous ones.

Your certification expires every 3 years if you do not perform 25 dives at your maximum level.

That's actually a positive thing... it prevents you from killing yourself

To my understanding, although very rare nowdays, a highly motivated GUE diver, not necesserily instructor can give you a very bad time if you are doing things against the GUE philosophy and procedures.

So, that is a bit complicated. There are two kinds of people in this regard:
- some of these people really want to do it only the GUE way; they dive almost always with GUE people, but they do not criticize people who are following a different philosophy, at least publicly;
- all the others (who are the majority in my experience), who really do not care about your philosophy.
Usually, the loudest speakers are the ones at a low level (read it: fundies or, sometimes tec1/cave1)

Of course there is a variance and they will not recall your certification if you drink a beer 2 hours after a recreational dive, but I know people that lost all certs for drug abuse and I don't mean instructors. They take every dive seriously and they expect you from you to be an equally good buddy.

About people losing their certification, I heard only a guy who enrolled on a cave course some years after the fundies, but he didn't practice at all and couldn't perform a valve drill, so the instructor removed his cert. I never heard other stories... But I guess for drug abuse, anyone would lose it

 

[AJ]

Doubt I'll ever had occasion to take the course, but for those researching it who run across this thread (plus I'm curious), I'd like clarification on some things.

1.) For someone seeking a recreational pass, with intend to only dive recreationally, as long as he's got a BP/W BCD and his regulator is set up with a long hose for primary donate, is that all the gear mandated? Anything else goes?

2.) When I see GUE Fundamentals lauded on ScubaBoard, or sought after, it's nearly always in terms of enhancing personal dive skills. I'm aware GUE is big on the 'team diving' approach, but that's not the reason I see most people seeking it out.

So, how much 'team' content is involved in the course? If a solo diver, or other diver with no expectation of diving with other GUE divers and a fairly lax view on the buddy system, how much team content would he have to slog through?

3.) In real world personal diving long after the course, what things change about your recreational diving? Buoyancy control and finning techniques, judging from what's been posted, but what else? Are there things they teach that most people let fall by the wayside in diving?

I'm asking my questions in an effort to get a sense of how 2 potentially competing agendas come together; what the student diver wishes to learn, and what GUE wants them to learn. There's probably a lot of overlap, but maybe not total?

I'll try to answer this from my own perspective:
1) Yep, the gear config needs to be according to GUE standards. So BP/W, long hose and backup under chin, goodman handle light, backup light, etc. and you're good to go. You can also rent this stuff when needed. No need to own it.

2) The team approach is all about awareness. Knowing where you are in the water column, where your buddies are and how everbody is doeing is an import safety skill. Being aware of dangers like entanglement hazards, depth and time versus plan is also important. Awareness comes when your diving skills are good enough to no longer be distracted with diving in itself anymore. Only then you're able to asess the situation as a whole.

3) Can only speak for myself, but what I did let go off is: always EAN32, 30 meter max., formal GUE EDGE and plan (still do that check informal). What I still do is analyzing gas, backmount in GUE config, cable light. I dive sidemount and as of next week rebreather in non GUE config. However, I use the skills I learned on all my dives, not matter what config I dive. Skills like frog kick, back kick, helicopter turn, safety check, etc. are usefull in any kind of diving.

The point is, fundies is strict in config during the class. Outside the class you're free to do whatever you like, there's no Scuba police. For me, fundies made me a much better allround diver and pushed my boundaries a lot. That's what fundies is all about for me, not the rules and gear.

Having done GUE training does not mean you can't dive any other way. Even the top GUE instructors dive in non GUE fashion if the dive requires it of when the dive is easier performed in an other way. They do take their skills with them and are good buddies when diving with non GUE trained divers.

To me GUE is not a religion, it's just a way of approaching diving. If it fits you, great. If not, great too.

 

[Divin'Papaw]

So if you use a BP/W but a deluxe harness, that’s not good enough? It has to be a single piece of webbing?

Correct. With the EXACT number and placement of D-rings. No adding one on the right side. Oh the insanity that would ensue if you were to dive with an extra D-ring!!

 

[Divin'Papaw]

And I think that's a mistake. It makes sense when you see what the end goal is. The folks at the top of the GUE pyramid are doing some pretty serious dives that only a small number of divers will ever do. However, being that is the end goal of their training, their insistence on team diving, equipment, makes complete sense.

It is what it is and I doubt it will change. It is one of the reasons I never pulled the trigger on taking Fundies even though I considered it very seriously on at least two occasions. The other key reason was the challenging logistics in scheduling and coordinating a course. A good bit of the logistics fall on the student(s). You want to take Fundies, you have to put in a good bit of work before the course even begins. In addition to equipment standards, this too turns off many from moving forward with Fundies.

At this point in my diving life, I'm perfectly happy with my skills and my level of comfort in the water. My training days are behind me.

 

[mariosx]

I sat through a 20-minute GUE-EDGE standing in the water — after we had briefed everything on-shore! This was before my Fundies class and didn‘t know any better.

Now I know: the problem is not GUE-EDGE; it‘s poorly organized and unfocused divers. Even doing cave dives with twice as much gear, a full GUE-EDGE takes me less than 4 minutes at normal speed — even with full equipment matching.

But yes, I agree: a *poorly done* GUE-EDGE is like waiting in line at the DMV…. It‘s not story time! We’re here to dive, not talk about diving!

I am still a newbie, and my new years resolution is to get GUE-EDGE under 3 minutes.

There are reasons for the non-rechargeable batteries; there are some threads here on SB. If you check the voltage of the batteries before any dive, they are superior to rechargeable ones (at least, they were according to @tbone1004 if I remember well what he wrote one or two years ago). I check the voltage any time before a cave dive (rarely in a lake or at sea, but I don't do very aggressive dives - yet)

Oh yeah. I think the issue with the rechargable ones is that they degrade their performance very quick after some point, while the others degrade in a predictable linear way. As said I feel I can explain everything I dive with thanks to GUE-F in the positives. It just is that in the beginning when you register for the class or in the first day, you might get mad on some "random standards".

My opinion: I believe the "right-hand thing" is there because of standardized procedures. I never heard that a person failed a course because of that; in real life, you wouldn't check the regulator, or if you do, nobody cares which hand you use as long as the entire procedure is safe AND fast (yes, using the right-hand makes it slightly faster).

It might be, I just know that I had to repeat V-drill more than I should due to that. I naturally confuse left and right as a person so you can imagine my situation. It still makes sense a bit because practically you devote your right hand dealing with the long hose and your left hand with the necklace at all times (only exception during S-drill if the donor is on the left side).

Really? It never happened to me... maybe some comments about my drysuit in summer (and, to be honest, they were right - unnecessary for the kind of dives I was doing, but I am not going to buy a wetsuit just for 5/10 dives per year). But maybe I was lucky

You were... or at least I was extremely unlucky. Feel free to check the reddit/scuba and you can see all the toxicity everytime GUE is mentioned. I wouldn't mind sharing with you some LDS that you will have a bad time if they found out you are trained by GUE.

So, that is a bit complicated. There are two kinds of people in this regard:
- some of these people really want to do it only the GUE way; they dive almost always with GUE people, but they do not criticize people who are following a different philosophy, at least publicly;
- all the others (who are the majority in my experience), who really do not care about your philosophy.
Usually, the loudest speakers are the ones at a low level (read it: fundies or, sometimes tec1/cave1)

So in this point I had in mind mostly old instructors and GUE divers, or new instructors that the want to level up in the "hierarchy". My experience during the class, although not explicity said is that GUE really tries to enforce philosophy and have each diver policing each other. During my class I had the instructor who knew my buddy (C1) that pushed me towards GUE, asking tricky questions to see if he was always doing things right, and it was clear that if he did, either they would shout at him to make sure he is more careful or he might have issues in his C2 class.
At one of my dives with one of the most big instructors at GUE during the briefing he made the gesture for deco stop, the first time I saw it in my life, and when I asked he explains and then asked me back in a very serious tone the name of my Fundies Instructor. The funny part is that this gesture has not been in the material of GUE-F for some years now, since 2 other people there that did their fundies with different instructors also didn't know it.
Personally, I am very careful everytime I interact with the all dogs. Quality control is everywhere in GUE.

About people losing their certification, I heard only a guy who enrolled on a cave course some years after the fundies, but he didn't practice at all and couldn't perform a valve drill, so the instructor removed his cert. I never heard other stories... But I guess for drug abuse, anyone would lose it

The thing is that I am not sure in other agencies if such thing is as common as in GUE.

Even the top GUE instructors dive in non GUE fashion if the dive requires it of when the dive is easier performed in an other way.

Do you have an example of a type of a dive that requires something not cover by DIR? I get that some dives could be easier performed in a non-DIR way assuming no availability of proper gear, but I might have trouble finding dives that DIR is not the optimal (or an optimal) solution.