GUE Fundamentals

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Divin'Papaw

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Fundies was developed by AG because GUE was forced to address insufficient skillset so often in GUE's tech courses. It is probably one of the biggest events in scuba training history and quality skills were objective and standardized. There isn't that much wiggle room for "mastery".

That is quite the overstatement, especially when 90+% of divers (that’s a guess) have NO CLUE who or what GUE or ‘Fundies’ are. Given the very limited reach of both, based upon numbers of divers trained Vs total divers trained, your supposition just doesn’t hold up IMO.
 

wetb4igetinthewater

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Thanks. Of all you shared, this is the one thing I balk at. It's my understanding GUE's genesis was caught up in reducing the fatality rate in regional cave diving, but at the recreational dive level (which is as far as most of us ever go), many divers won't dive caves or do substantial wreck penetrations or other overhead diving (aside from swim-throughs and guide-led dives through very benign wrecks like the Kittiwake in Grand Cayman).

What does the average recreational diver mainly diving tropical and/or other high viz. locations need a canister light?
The one thing GUE does is establish consistency from start to finish, so that everything is ingrained. You test all gasses (so no air diving which most of the world does, just nitrox or trimix). They don't replace equipment/practices, just build upon them. It makes absolute sense for what they are trying to do with technical dives deep in the open water and in caves.

The only issue is, and I'll admit I'm doing a poor job at communicating as people are not grasping a very basic concept/reality, is that most people don't want to dive that way. They don't want the exact mandated equipment configuration. We have to accept that reality. As you brought up cannister lights, we all know and accept (for the love of God, I hope we all do) there are cordless lights that do the job for recreational divers that are more than satisfactory. In fact, a lot of non-DIR cave divers use cordless lights. I'll not enter that debate as I'm not a cave diver. Just stating the facts.

Regardless of the equipment configuration being desirable by someone or not, just borrow what you need, learn, and then move on. Whatever you dive, will be a much better diver.

That is quite the overstatement, especially when 90+% of divers (that’s a guess) have NO CLUE who or what GUE or ‘Fundies’ are. Given the very limited reach of both, based upon numbers of divers trained Vs total divers trained, your supposition just doesn’t hold up IMO.
My guess is that the percentage is higher. But the fact that they have disrupted in a good way dive training, I still stand by my statement. Most of the industry limps along in mediocrity. I am absolutely ecstatic to see the way RAID is growing as an organization. Are they perfect? No, but they are heads above the other WRSTC members (NASE being one exception as they also require OW to be taught NB).
 

YankeeDollar

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Thanks. Of all you shared, this is the one thing I balk at. It's my understanding GUE's genesis was caught up in reducing the fatality rate in regional cave diving, but at the recreational dive level (which is as far as most of us ever go), many divers won't dive caves or do substantial wreck penetrations or other overhead diving (aside from swim-throughs and guide-led dives through very benign wrecks like the Kittiwake in Grand Cayman).

What does the average recreational diver mainly diving tropical and/or other high viz. locations need a canister light?
A canister light is not required for fundies, but it is required for a fundies tech pass. The instructor may have one available to use. Gas sharing is a core skill, and if moving on with technical training where a canister light may be used, managing the light cord while sharing gas is required.

In open water GUE divers will still dive with a primary light, though it may not be a canister light, as light communication (both active and passive) are part of the team dynamics. Even in the technical world, GUE divers may choose a primary light without a canister provided that it is fit for the task at hand in terms of light output and burn time.
 

drrich2

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That is quite the overstatement, especially when 90+% of divers (that’s a guess) have NO CLUE who or what GUE or ‘Fundies’ are.
I see your point. I think it did open an important new path for self-improvement. I think historically many divers have pursued diver master, or even instructor, certification training with an eye toward progressively improving their diving, rather than guiding or teaching courses.

GUE Fundamentals may offer what many of these people are after.
 

YankeeDollar

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I see your point. I think it did open an important new path for self-improvement. I think historically many divers have pursued diver master, or even instructor, certification training with an eye toward progressively improving their diving, rather than guiding or teaching courses.

GUE Fundamentals may offer what many of these people are after.
Thats how I ended up taking a Fundies - the decision between the much touted "Go Pro" route which is focused on teaching vs. tech which focuses on expanding a divers capacity. If someone asked me "I want to become a better diver, should I take a divemaster course or fundies?" the answer would be fundies 100% of the time. And no, Intro to Tech isn't Fundies, but thats another rabbit hole.
 

Divin'Papaw

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The only issue is, and I'll admit I'm doing a poor job at communicating as people are not grasping a very basic concept/reality, is that most people don't want to dive that way. They don't want the exact mandated equipment configuration. We have to accept that reality.

BINGO.

I have huge respect for GUE; however, this single-minded insistence on ONE essential equipment configuration is one factor that prevents them from being more broadly relevant IMO. Not the only factor, but one of them. I’m sure they are fine with that.
 

wetb4igetinthewater

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insistence on ONE essential equipment configuration is one factor that prevents them from being more broadly relevant IMO. Not the only factor, but one of them. I’m sure they are fine with that.
And I think that's a mistake. It makes sense when you see what the end goal is. The folks at the top of the GUE pyramid are doing some pretty serious dives that only a small number of divers will ever do. However, being that is the end goal of their training, their insistence on team diving, equipment, makes complete sense.

As I said, go for the skills, take what you want, and go back to whatever you want after the class.

For those interested, here are the equipment requirements from https://www.gue.com/files/standards9/Fundamentals-Standards-v9.2.pdf:

Appendix A - GUE Base Equipment Configuration
The GUE base equipment configuration is comprised of:
a. Tanks/cylinders: Students may use a single tank/cylinder with a single- or dual-outlet
valve. Students may also use dual tanks/cylinders connected with a dual-outlet isolator
manifold, which allows for the use of two first stages. Dual tanks/cylinders connected
with a dual-outlet, non-isolator manifold can be used, but only in recreational (no
decompression) diving, and are considered an alternative for a single tank/cylinder.
Consult course-specific standards and your instructor to verify size requirements.
b. Regulators:
i. Single tank: The first stage must supply a primary second stage via a 5 to 7 ft/1.5
to 2 m hose. A backup second stage must be necklaced and supplied via a short
hose. The first stage must also supply an analog pressure gauge, inflation for the
buoyancy compensator (BC), and (when applicable) inflation for a drysuit.
ii. Double tank: One first stage must supply a primary second stage via a 5 to 7
ft/1.5 to 2 m hose (7 ft/2 m hose is required for all cave classes), and inflation for
the buoyancy compensator (BC). The other first stage must supply a necklaced
backup second stage via a short hose, an analog pressure gauge, and (when
applicable) inflation for a drysuit.
c. Backplate system:
i. Is held to the diver by one continuous piece of webbing. This webbing is
adjustable and uses a buckle to secure the system at the waist.
ii. A crotch strap is attached and looped through the waistband to prevent the
system from riding up a diver’s back.
iii. The continuous webbing must support five D-rings;
1. The first placed at the left hip
2. The second placed in line with a diver’s right collarbone
3. The third placed in line with the diver’s left collarbone
4. The fourth and fifth are placed on the front and back of the crotch strap
when divers plan to use advanced equipment such as DPVs.
iv. The harness below the diver’s arms has small restrictive bands to allow for the
placement of backup lights. The webbing and system retains a minimalist
approach.
d. Buoyancy compensation device (BC):
GUE General Training Standards, Policies, and Procedures
Excerpt from Version 9.2 view the full document at www.gue.com/standards
5
i. A diver’s BC is back-mounted and minimalist in nature.
ii. It is free of extraneous strings, tabs, or other material.
iii. There are no restrictive bands or restrictive elastic affixed to the buoyancy cell.
iv. Wing size and shape is appropriate to the cylinder size(s) employed for training.
e. At least one time/depth measuring device
f. Wrist-mounted compass
g. Mask and fins: Mask is low-volume; fins are rigid, non-split.
h. Backup mask
i. At least one cutting device
j. Wetnotes with pencils
k. Surface marker buoy (SMB) with spool: when required, the SMB should be appropriate
for environmental conditions and deployed using a spool with at least 100 ft/30 m of line.
l. Exposure suit appropriate for the duration of exposure
Additional Course-Specific Equipment
a. Where required, back gas and stage cylinders are marked in accordance with the GUE
General Training Standards, Policies, and Procedures document and configured in line
with GUE protocols.
b. When drysuit inflation systems are applicable, they should be sized appropriately for the
environment; small tanks are placed on the left side of the backplate with larger supplies
affixed to the diver’s left back gas tank.
c. Underwater lights:
i. When required, backup lights should be powered by alkaline batteries (not
rechargeable) and stowed on the D-rings at a diver’s chest.
ii. Backup lights should have a minimal amount of protrusions and a single
attachment at the rear.
iii. The primary light should consist of a rechargeable battery pack and be fitted with
a Goodman-style light handle.
iv. When burn time requirements create the need for an external battery pack, it
should reside in a canister mounted on the diver’s right hip.
d. Guideline devices, as required during cave diving activities:
i. A primary reel is required for all cave diving and provides a minimalist form
factor with a handle designed to support a Goodman or “hands free” handle
operation. The primary reel must contain at least 150 ft/45 m of line.
ii. A safety spool is required for each diver while cave diving and must contain at
least 150 ft/45 m of line.
iii. A jump or gap spool is required during Cave 2 diving and must contain at least 75
ft/23 m of line.
 

drrich2

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c. Backplate system:
i. Is held to the diver by one continuous piece of webbing. This webbing is
adjustable and uses a buckle to secure the system at the waist.
So if you use a BP/W but a deluxe harness, that’s not good enough? It has to be a single piece of webbing?
 

Tracy

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Thanks. Of all you shared, this is the one thing I balk at. It's my understanding GUE's genesis was caught up in reducing the fatality rate in regional cave diving, but at the recreational dive level (which is as far as most of us ever go), many divers won't dive caves or do substantial wreck penetrations or other overhead diving (aside from swim-throughs and guide-led dives through very benign wrecks like the Kittiwake in Grand Cayman).

What does the average recreational diver mainly diving tropical and/or other high viz. locations need a canister light?
Canister light isn't a requirement. A hard goodman style handle is.
 

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