GUE Fundamentals

[wetb4igetinthewater]

Yeah. And did I mention that, during the GUE-F class I bought a custom-sized DUI drysuit from his dive shop (I was barely outside of stock size specs), only to find out years later that he bought a stock suit from DUI and then sold it to me at the custom price?

I don't doubt the veracity of your claim. Maybe such incidents is what led to his departure from GUE. From the instructors (and instructor trainers) I know, the organization does try to maintain professional standards. You may disagree, but this is my perception.

 

[tmassey]

Also, *when* was this class? The type of thing that you describe used to be standard operating procedure, something like 15 years ago. However, in the last, say at least seven years, that mindset has been significantly disavowed. unfortunately, some of the old instructors still cling to that.

Hey, if you like abuse, feel free to seek out one of those old school instructors. If you don’t like abuse but you do like learning, seek out one of the newer, younger instructors. I feel slightly bad saying that: there’s probably some old time instructor who has kept with the times. But given the cost and effort involved, I would go in the direction that is likely to give me the results that I desire.

And, like any significant investment of time and money, do your research. Search for their name on Scuba board. Talk to previous students. find out what you’re getting into, because the instructors are human, and like any human-based endeavor you’re going to get a variety of outcomes from a variety of people.

 

[Doc Harry]

And, like any significant investment of time and money, do your research. Search for their name on Scuba board. Talk to previous students. find out what you’re getting into, because the instructors are human, and like any human-based endeavor you’re going to get a variety of outcomes from a variety of people.

I made the mistake of trusting that GUE as an agency would police their own.

 

[tmassey]

I made the mistake of trusting that GUE as an agency would police their own.

Your anecdote highlights the need to take ownership of your own experience. No matter who or what the experience or provider is. And *especially* one as polarizing as GUE. It’s important to do your own evaluation of the teacher just as much as they should you as a student. Which is not to say that anything you experienced is necessarily your fault or such. But no matter who the organization is, you need to make sure that in your particular instance you’re going to get what you need in the way that you need it.

(Extensively edited to remove the angst and sarcasm.)

 

[Gandalf-the-Diver]

You do realize your experience is dramatically different than many.

I have no idea who your instructor was, but for the GUE instructors I know on the West Coast from California to BC, not a single one would ever behave in such a manner. I'll pay anyone $100 who can come up with a substantiated instance where this did happen out here.

Now if we are talking about Florida or the Midwest, then I'm not surprised.

GUE divers in Victoria, I have met, even as a fresh OW, were all pretty good. Did one "casual" GUE drop in, and nobody said any thing about the single tank guy with a pony, although the fact I had redundant air was duly noted as a good thing. The diver I was paired with, led the group. He got us lost and we surfaced 100 yds away from where we should've been.

 

[Graeme Fraser]

@marisosx, excellent post(s), just a few comments to compare my experience.

There are reasons for the non-rechargeable batteries; there are some threads here on SB. If you check the voltage of the batteries before any dive, they are superior to rechargeable ones (at least, they were according to @tbone1004 if I remember well what he wrote one or two years ago). I check the voltage any time before a cave dive (rarely in a lake or at sea, but I don't do very aggressive dives - yet)

My opinion: I believe the "right-hand thing" is there because of standardized procedures. I never heard that a person failed a course because of that; in real life, you wouldn't check the regulator, or if you do, nobody cares which hand you use as long as the entire procedure is safe AND fast (yes, using the right-hand makes it slightly faster).

Really? It never happened to me... maybe some comments about my drysuit in summer (and, to be honest, they were right - unnecessary for the kind of dives I was doing, but I am not going to buy a wetsuit just for 5/10 dives per year). But maybe I was lucky

You will not stop noticing bad habits. But, trust me, you will eventually come back to enjoy any instabuddy, except for the dangerous ones.

That's actually a positive thing... it prevents you from killing yourself

So, that is a bit complicated. There are two kinds of people in this regard:
- some of these people really want to do it only the GUE way; they dive almost always with GUE people, but they do not criticize people who are following a different philosophy, at least publicly;
- all the others (who are the majority in my experience), who really do not care about your philosophy.
Usually, the loudest speakers are the ones at a low level (read it: fundies or, sometimes tec1/cave1)

About people losing their certification, I heard only a guy who enrolled on a cave course some years after the fundies, but he didn't practice at all and couldn't perform a valve drill, so the instructor removed his cert. I never heard other stories... But I guess for drug abuse, anyone would lose it

Hi @ginti

Although I am not personally a GUE diver, I have dived and socialised with a few and always enjoyed the experience.

As with all things 'internet', emotions often run hot and otherwise pleasant people don't always come across as entirely reasonable on either side of the debate. However, I just wanted to say I very much enjoy reading your posts and always find your views and opinions informative and well considered. Although I don't believe you would consider yourself as such, I think you make an excellent 'unofficial ambassador' for the organisation and wider DIR philosophy.

Anyway, sorry for veering off topic, it's just that I wanted to say this for a while. G

 

[ginti]

@kierentec @BlueTrin @wetb4igetinthewater @tmassey @OrcasC205 @Gandalf-the-diver
the link below is the experience of @Doc Harry

At that time, I really wanted to understand @Doc Harry's point of view, and I believe he is frank and sincere in describing his experience. Still, I couldn't agree with his perspective because I think he was expecting too much from the headquarter, and he generalized too much, in my opinion. By the way, his instructor is not anymore in GUE; maybe he has been pushed away because of this event and other similar ones (this is just a hypothesis).

Anyway, personal opinions are just that - personal. So I don't feel I need to convince @Doc Harry to change his mind, and I only hope his feelings about GUE will not prevent him from diving with me in case we will ever meet

Here's the link:

Starting Technical diving GUE Vs TDI VS PADI?

Yes a SF2 is only a closed SF1 which itself is a RB80 clone:) It would have seen as a natural choice. Maybe the carbon construction, maybe more personal link with JJ and AP? Anyway, they made a choice and it is their and they look happy with that:) I don't know if the SF2 was widely marketed at...

scubaboard.com

@Graeme Fraser glad that you enjoy my posts! You're right: I don't feel like an ambassador at all - you will hardly see me with a GUE t-shirt, although I have one. The posts I write really reflect my views and the way I tackle problems in real life, and it just happens that most of the people I met within GUE have similar ideas and ways of thinking, that's it

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

@ginti

I think we need to remember that GUE was a very different organization when George Irvine III was actively involved. Fortunately, he never served as the American ambassador to Russia or China or we may have had WW3. I think GUE has made concerted efforts to cleanse itself from his style. While I know or interacted with only a fraction of the GUE instructors worldwide (US, Canada, Mexico, Europe), none of them have a shred of resemblance to GI3. From Doc Harry's description, that does not sound true for his instructor.

Organizations do change over time, and I believe GUE has made significant improvements with their teaching styles.

I've only taken fundies, so I consider myself a GUE influenced diver, but have no adopted much of their philosophy, so I hope people realize that I'm not some GUE apologist who has drunk the Kool Aid, as I (1) dive air, (2) dive solo, (3) dive sidemount in open water, and (4) don't dive a GUE configured JJ rebreather. All verboten with GUE!

Edit: (5) I use rechargeable batteries in my backup lights

 

[AJ]

I've only taken fundies, so I consider myself a GUE influenced diver, but have no adopted much of their philosophy, so I hope people realize that I'm not some GUE apologist who has drunk the Kool Aid, as I (1) dive air, (2) dive solo, (3) dive sidemount in open water, and (4) don't dive a GUE configured JJ rebreather. All verboten with GUE!

Edit: (5) I use rechargeable batteries in my backup lights

Wow, you're really are an infidel Me too by the way. I do exactly the same, even the JJ-CCR even though I'am Fundies Tech certified.

 

[sourdough]

Wow, you're really are an infidel Me too by the way. I do exactly the same, even the JJ-CCR even though I'am Fundies Tech certified.

Ho. Lee. Ship.

I just got my rec pass, and am thereby obligated to report you to Dorota.

However it has come to my attention that although I do not own a DPV or have the dogecoin to buy one anytime soon, my V crotch strap is not in compliance with Appendix A... therefore I won't tell if you don't tell.

xoxo