GUE Fundamentals

[Heat Miser]

Out of curiosity, how did you calculate the density? I am really curious, so we can continue even in private if you prefer...

I think they are different because I worked them out assuming an in loop pp02 setpoint on the rebeather of 1.2 in which case in 90m Tx 10/70 example, the in loop gas content is a blended mix 2.2% x 100% O2 and 97.8% x TX 10/70.

But I'll have to check my calcs on w/e when I have more spare time,,, good discussion !

EDIT

I think your right I'm wrong, thats what you get for messing around between 1am-2am


EDIT version 2

So your answers are more accurate, my calcs have some conservative assumptions (which I was taught and maybe get more out of whack the deeper you go) So to get Multi Deco to work back to my answers you have to make assumption CCR & 1.2 setpoint + 0 degrees C + 90m = 10 ATA rather than 9.89. ie multiply Multi Deco gas density 5.35 by 10/9.89 = 5.40 gr/ltr

EDIT 3

To Test take 2.20% x 14.19 g/L (100 O2) + 97.80% x 5.14 g/L (TX 10/70) = 5.34 g/L

and then because I used 10 ATA and Multi-Deco uses 90 Meters = 9.89 ATA

5.34 g/l x 10/9.89 = 5.40 g/L to get to my answer

 

[ginti]

I think they are different because I worked them out assuming an in loop pp02 setpoint on the rebeather of 1.2 in which case in 90m Tx 10/70 example, the in loop gas content is a blended mix 2.2% x 100% O2 and 97.8% x TX 10/70.

But I'll have to check my calcs on w/e when I have more spare time,,, good discussion !

EDIT

I think your right I'm wrong, thats what you get for messing around between 1am-2am

I am not a CCR diver, so I have no idea of how to calculate the gases; to my understanding, the ppO2 of 1.2 is a maximum, but then it depends on how you manage the CCR... you know more than me for sure If you think my calculation is right, I'll trust you

 

[Heat Miser]

I think they are different because I worked them out assuming an in loop pp02 setpoint on the rebeather of 1.2 in which case in 90m Tx 10/70 example, the in loop gas content is a blended mix 2.2% x 100% O2 and 97.8% x TX 10/70.

But I'll have to check my calcs on w/e when I have more spare time,,, good discussion !

I am not a CCR diver, so I have no idea of how to calculate the gases; to my understanding, the ppO2 of 1.2 is a maximum, but then it depends on how you manage the CCR... you know more than me for sure If you think my calculation is right, I'll trust you

See version 2 edit, essentially your numbers are right, but by making some more conservative assumptions like temperature = 0 degrees celsius and 10 Meters equals 1 ATA instead of .989 you get to my numbers.

Regardless both sets of numbers seem to convey what I was discussing which is that GUE appear recommend lower pp02's, simply by inferring the results from their standard gas mixes for both OC and CCR.

This is not a problem in my opinion, conservative is typically better, but whether it all averages out to the similar thing because I'm using 40/70 GF and setpoint 1.3 with less He and someone else on a GUE rigged JJ is using 30/80 GF and a setpoint of 1.2 with more He I don't know and need to think about it.

 

[ginti]

Regardless both sets of numbers seem to convey what I was discussing which is that GUE appear recommend lower pp02's, simply by inferring the results from their standard gas mixes for both OC and CCR.

This is not a problem in my opinion, conservative is typically better, but whether it all averages out to the similar thing because I'm using 40/70 GF and setpoint 1.3 with less He and someone else on a GUE rigged JJ is using 30/80 GF and a setpoint of 1.2 with more He I don't know and need to think about it.

If I were you, I would look at the report I previously linked. There have been reported several issues at ppO2 of 1.3, independently of the depth, but most symptoms were similar to CO2 retention (page 54, Arieli study of 2006); maybe because of the high density of O2 (mixed with the high working condition?). If only gas density were the problem in the dives of that research, I'd say that if you manage to have a good gas density, reduced deco at a ppO2 of1.3, that seems reasonable!

FYI, I also remember I read Simon Mitchel suggesting a ppO2 of 1.2 in a more recent report, but I cannot find it anymore.

But we are far OT now, and I have nothing else to add... I propose to stop here

 

[Wstern5]

I was fortunate last November to dive certain caverns in cenotes in Quintana Roo in the middle of the jungle in a land that not even the owners have access to. Seriously a non-GUE top cave instructor cannot access these caves, and a newbie like me could just because I got a rec pass in GUE-F. And I mean caves that have not been touched for thousands/millions of years. Ofc during the briefing it was made clear that the slightest silting even in relatively narrow places could be reason to get "very very very mad" at me, but I am not sure which other agency offers this priviledge to their recreational members.

Having difficulty wrapping my head around this…

 

[mariosx]

Having difficulty wrapping my head around this…

To my understanding there are some cenotes that only CINDAQ has access to, which means only 3 divers from 0G and anybody accompaning them, thanks to a special agreement with the government. They only perform GUE dives, thus only GUE divers would participate in such expeditions. We were extremely fortunate to have a legend, Fred Devos, assisting our experiments and offer to me and another GUE-F buddy some guided cavern dives there.

 

[Doc Harry]

If you take a GUE class, remember that you're not there to learn, you're there to audition.

You must arrive to the class already a master of the materials that you are supposed to learn in the class. Otherwise, be prepared to be abused and ridiculed. GUE has a serious superiority complex, and to join their exclusive club you have to master all of the skills before you audition.

For instance, when I was trying to learn the back-kick during my GUE-F course, the instructor intentionally oriented me with my feet pointing upstream into a stiff current. Then he ridiculed me for not being able to learn the back-kick and maintain my position in a stiff current. That instructor was a sadist. The entire GUE-F course is just punishment for everything that you want to learn but don't already know.

What's wrong with these people?

 

[wetb4igetinthewater]

If you take a GUE class, remember that you're not there to learn, you're there to audition.

You must arrive to the class already a master of the materials that you are supposed to learn in the class. Otherwise, be prepared to be abused and ridiculed. GUE has a serious superiority complex, and to join their exclusive club you have to master all of the skills before you audition.

For instance, when I was trying to learn the back-kick during my GUE-F course, the instructor intentionally oriented me with my feet pointing upstream into a stiff current. Then he ridiculed me for not being able to learn the back-kick and maintain my position in a stiff current. That instructor was a sadist. The entire GUE-F course is just punishment for everything that you want to learn but don't already know.

What's wrong with these people?

You do realize your experience is dramatically different than many.

I have no idea who your instructor was, but for the GUE instructors I know on the West Coast from California to BC, not a single one would ever behave in such a manner. I'll pay anyone $100 who can come up with a substantiated instance where this did happen out here.

Now if we are talking about Florida or the Midwest, then I'm not surprised.

 

[OrcasC205]

You do realize your experience is dramatically different than many.

I have no idea who your instructor was, but for the GUE instructors I know on the West Coast from California to BC, not a single one would ever behave in such a manner. I'll pay anyone $100 who can come up with a substantiated instance where this did happen out here.

Now if we are talking about Florida or the Midwest, then I'm not surprised.

I agree. What @Doc Harry described is exactly the opposite of my experience with the GUE classes I have taken in Seattle.

 

[kierentec]

If you take a GUE class, remember that you're not there to learn, you're there to audition.

You must arrive to the class already a master of the materials that you are supposed to learn in the class. Otherwise, be prepared to be abused and ridiculed. GUE has a serious superiority complex, and to join their exclusive club you have to master all of the skills before you audition.

For instance, when I was trying to learn the back-kick during my GUE-F course, the instructor intentionally oriented me with my feet pointing upstream into a stiff current. Then he ridiculed me for not being able to learn the back-kick and maintain my position in a stiff current. That instructor was a sadist. The entire GUE-F course is just punishment for everything that you want to learn but don't already know.

What's wrong with these people?

This is absolutely the opposite of how a Fundamentals course should be, and I am very sad to hear of your experience. I expect you explained your experience on the course survey when the course was finished?