Gue DIR-F vs Naui intro to tech

[Derek S]

As the program become more popular many "New" individuals became GUE instructors and lacked this similar type of diving experience or knowledge or ultimately general teaching ability. Originally “GUE instructors” were considered top shelf, with top shelf diving experience. This is no longer the case. I am not going to list names here but there are many many GUE instructors without any previous teaching experience (In fact DIRF is the only course they can teach and have taught two people last year), there are many without any experience in Technical/Cave Diving and certainly lack real world project diving experience. They have become simply “parrots” of the program. This may allow a student to get some of the info but that is about it.

Way to take the high road....

 

[jonnythan]

Way to take the high road....

Actually, what I'd like to see is a statement about how any other agency, specifically NAUI, is able to do this and how only instructors who believe in the core philosophy are able to teach the class.

 

[Derek S]

Actually, what I'd like to see is a statement about how any other agency, specifically NAUI, is able to do this and how only instructors who believe in the core philosophy are able to teach the class.

I guess that depends to whom you're directing the inquiry.

 

[StSomewhere]

Actually, what I'd like to see is a statement about how any other agency, specifically NAUI, is able to do this and how only instructors who believe in the core philosophy are able to teach the class.

This is something that AG developed, and I think he knows a thing or two about DIR. You shouldn't assume that any other NAUITec instructor would be up to this except the ones at 5thd-x.

 

[jonnythan]

This is something that AG developed, and I think he knows a thing or two about DIR. You shouldn't assume that any other NAUITec instructor would be up to this except the ones at 5thd-x.

Well, yeah. That's the problem. Despite what AG says about GUE instructors not believing in the core philosophy (or whatever), I'll believe, based on what I've observed, that the quality level of instruction from a GUE instructor is consistently higher than that from a typical NAUI "DIR" instructor. I wouldn't mind being proved otherwise, though.

 

[Derek S]

Well, yeah. That's the problem. Despite what AG says about GUE instructors not believing in the core philosophy (or whatever), I'll believe, based on what I've observed, that the quality level of instruction from a GUE instructor is consistently higher than that from a typical NAUI "DIR" instructor. I wouldn't mind being proved otherwise, though.

Agreed. I'm just sick of the in-fighting. I was surprised because I would have thought that someone of AG's calibre would have been 'above that'.

Again, nothing personal to AG, I'm just sick of the in-fighting. Either everyone puts everything out on the table and let us as divers decide for ourselves, or everyone just shuts up and dives.

 

[5thD-X]

My point is not to bash anyone here (including MHK as I do consider him a friend) but rather to point out that it is disingenuous to believe that you get the same quality of training from “ALL” GUE instructors, just as it is disingenuous to think that you can get the same level of training from “ALL” NAUI instructors. No matter what the process to become an instructor is, the standard of an agency must be set by more than some outdated standards and procedures on a website, but rather there needs to be clearly defined procedures, supporting materials for instructors and students that demonstrate in-water skills and provide reference material for the classroom that can be utilized both before and after class. For example, using the words “good trim and buoyancy” does not actually mean anything unless it is supported by materials that can show what the agency/instructor mean. Otherwise it is just an arbitrary standard that clearly gets interpreted, demonstrated, and taught many different ways. So just by saying our way is the “right way” without these supporting materials is not enough.

However, if you take a concept such as “good trim” and can convey this to your instructors and students with written description, pictures, and ideally video then you can actually set a much higher bar rather than leaving it open to interpretation. Having these materials gives everyone, new students to instructors something to work towards to achieve that standard. I believe this is how we can improve scuba diving education on a broader scale, without hiding behind any particular agency.

The number one complaint we had with the GUE classes was lack of materials... “Tons of info, great class, learned lots, but NO Materials” Other than a photocopy of the DIR-F power point, GUE has yet to supply any support materials for students taking a class. In fact the instructors did not even have materials excepting the powerpoints I created (that now just have a GUE logo), but there is essentially nothing. No instructor guides for any classes on what to teach, how to teach, nothing demonstrating skills. This is why the GUE internship process was so laborious since the only way for upcoming instructors to learn was to be mentored by someone who could show them how to teach, what to teach, and develop their in water skills. Then these “upcoming instructors” have complete leadway to interpret and change things as they see fit. So how can a student ensure that they are receiving the same class, procedures and quality from any of the GUE instructors? They can’t, and the QC process certainly doesn’t function to improve the quality of instruction; but rather as a way to keep the instructors “in-line.”

Quite simply, our motivation for creating these materials for all of our classes was to fill a glaring hole in DIR Education and share it with anyone wanting to learn, regardless of what agency they take classes with. For us, having a DVD with Powerpoint, workbooks, flow charts and videos of all the skills sets the bar and defines the procedures. These materials show the students exactly what we expect. Also because they can purchase these materials prior to class, pre-study, use during class, and then have as an after-class reference, helps them retain the information and continue to learn and grow as a diver. If others instructors want these materials as reference or to teach from them, I will gladly share with them. Standardized education is not created by making an instructor endure massive time commitment, massive expense with NO guidelines or reference materials, but rather by setting a standard through clear, understandable materials and not simply written words that are too open to interpretation by a select few. I truly believe that this is how we can improve the quality of education.

Andrew

 

[Tavi]

I'd be willing to bet there is a difference between AG's intro to tec and NAUI's intro to tec.

I'd guess that niether is an equivalent to DIRf.

At one time I was interested in DIRf. The more crap I hear, the less interest I have.

 

[MonkSeal]

At one time I was interested in DIRf. The more crap I hear, the less interest I have.

Crap about ... ? DIR-F class itself? Instructors? Relationships? I wouldn't mix my interest for particular class with things read on the Internet.

 

[cmalinowski]

At one time I was interested in DIRf. The more crap I hear, the less interest I have.

Not sure I understand this either. Most of the "crap" is probably coming from people who haven't take the class. It's unlikely you'll find someone who has taken the class and not come away feeling that they got more than their money's worth... but there is probably one or two out there.

Most people who have taken the class feel rather humbled when they watch themselves on the video and sometimes that comes across wrong in postings on the internet. Additionally, some people who are new and excited go out and tout the benefits of GUE diving and it comes across as evangelical or worse (guilty of it myself).

It all usually goes the same way: Someone asks a DIR question, which is answered. Then someone who doesn't like GUE/DIR comes in to add the non-DIR slant to things and slams GUE/DIR divers with the "you're saying I'm doing it WRONG" lines (which seems to be the main argument they have usually). In which case, GUE/DIR divers usually defend their position and the whole vicious cycle plays out once again. Sometimes, to the non-GUE diver's credit, some of the GUE noobs or true evangelists come across as pricks, but most of the people I've met have been great... And ALL of the GUE officials I have met have been wonderful and not preachy in any way. Willing to help, but understanding human nature and not offending.

I don't think GUE diving is for everyone. So if you're not into it, that's cool. But don't give up on it because you read some threads or were on a boat where people bashed it. Human nature shows that lots of people who have been doing things a certain way, think that their way is best (or they wouldn't do it). Someone coming along and challenging that thought process can be damaging to someone's ego, and they tend to respond to that threat. Since I'm a relative noob to diving, I'm certain that my way isn't the best and I need to learn how to do it correctly . GUE is helping me learn how I want to dive. That works for me.

Good luck in your decisions, and safe diving.

Chris