DIR- GUE GUE Cave 2 - ready?

[ginti]

Hi guys, I have some questions for GUE Cave 2 divers or higher (o instructors, even of different agencies, but with experience enough to answer). I have done 25 cave 1 dives plus a bit of rec and tec experience after my cave one course, and every time I am in a cave, I would like to have a bit more time - the answer is obvious, go for cave 2, right?

Well, the thing is that my experience is almost the bare minimum to start a cave 2 course, so I wonder: am I ready?

So this is what I would like to know from you:
- in your opinion, what are the most demanding challenges in the cave 2 course?
- is there any way to minimize the possibilities of a "fail" for this course? (please, do not answer something like "if you believe you could get a provisional or a fail do not do the course" - I already know it and agree with you )
- how would you say if a person is ready or not?
- usually, 25 dives plus a bit of extra experience is actually ok? or maybe isn't it enough?

Thanks!

 

[beester]

Hi guys, I have some questions for GUE Cave 2 divers or higher (o instructors, even of different agencies, but with experience enough to answer). I have done 25 cave 1 dives plus a bit of rec and tec experience after my cave one course, and every time I am in a cave, I would like to have a bit more time - the answer is obvious, go for cave 2, right? Well, the thing is that my experience is almost the bare minimum to start a cave 2 course, so I wonder: am I ready? So this is what I would like to know from you: - in your opinion, what are the most demanding challenges in the cave 2 course? - is there any way to minimize the possibilities of a "fail" for this course? (please, do not answer something like "if you believe you could get a provisional or a fail do not do the course" - I already know it and agree with you ) - how would you say if a person is ready or not? - usually, 25 dives plus a bit of extra experience is actually ok? or maybe isn't it enough? Thanks!

 

[beester]

Sorry for the double post Ginti..i am typing with my fat fingers on a phone.

The quick and easy answer is "you know when you are ready". In my case i did it after about 60 c1 dives... i was really acting like an unresponsible *******... meaning starting to take scooters and stages with me... joining c2 divers, etc..until a gue instructor told me to do the bloody course.

But it doesnt have to be like this. In my opinion c1 is an incomplete course. Didactically it needs to be like this because going from zero cave experience to full blown c2 divers is just to big a leap. However it also means that you run quite fast into the limits c1 (mainly on gas and navigation). In that regard it feels much more as a completion..vs a separate course.

With t1 vs t2 it is a totally different realm... you can be perfectly happy doing t1 dives...without running into limits. And the leap to t2 is a big one.

So if you've done your 25 c1 dives..there is no reason not to take c2. Focus in c2 will be mainly on extended gas management, the extra tools that stages bring in managing problems...this and navigation, navigation, navigation...(and restrictions) something you dont really feel in french caves! Thats also why i always recommend to do c2 in mexico or florida...

So in short..make sure your basis (fundies) are sound and go for it!

 

[BoltSnap]

(and restrictions) something you dont really feel in french caves! Thats also why i always recommend to do c2 in mexico or florida...

How bad are these "restrictions"? How far in do you go through these restrictions?

 

[Lorenzoid]

@ginti , thanks for posting this question. I am in the same position as you and have been thinking about this. I figure, as @beester put it, when I'm ready I will know it. One thing I recall an instructor saying--not sure if it was my C1 instructor--was that if handling the reel still feels like a burden, you're not ready.

 

[mer]

Well, the thing is that my experience is almost the bare minimum to start a cave 2 course, so I wonder: am I ready?

So this is what I would like to know from you:
- in your opinion, what are the most demanding challenges in the cave 2 course?
- how would you say if a person is ready or not?

Thanks!

@ginti

AVERAGE EXPERIENCE
While 25 C1 dives is the minimum, I'd say the average experience is 50 C1 dives. I also strongly suggest that at least 10 C1 dives be in the prior 6 months before coming to C2.

WHY PEOPLE FAIL
Number one reason people "fail" a GUE tech or cave class is lack of preparation and/or weak Fundamentals skills. If someone comes to class having done their time absorbing the lessons of the prior level, then any "new" skills can easily be taught during the class. However, if you're fighting your buoyancy, trim, and back kick... and you'll have a rough time. Strong Fundamentals skills are your friend.

HOW TO TELL
The skills introduced in the prior level should be practiced (via training dives and experience dives, there is value to both) until those skills are not particularly task loading. @Lorenzoid nailed it... if you're dreading running the reel as a Cave 1 diver, then you're not ready for Cave 2. That takes a different amount of dives for different divers.

SKILLS THAT SHOULD NO LONGER TASK LOAD YOU
For C2 in particular, good skills to have no longer significantly task load you are:
- anything Fundamentals (buoyancy, stability, drysuit, propulsion)
- reel
- passive light communication
- comfort in orientations other than horizontal (heads down and heads up... called shadowing or contouring)
- single-handed clipping to d-rings
- single-handed retrieving and stowing of things in your drysuit pockets

And explicitly here I haven't mentioned anything that is "new" to C2: You do NOT need to know how to dive with a stage or do a gas switch before class. Just get super solid on Cave 1 dives.

You should have experience in multiple cave entrances, but note that many of the skills above can be practiced and refined at non-overhead sites.

Dive safe, dive often.

 

[beester]

Good comments, you are right about the reel stuff. If there was 1 thing i struggled with during my c2 class (mexico 2015) it was the reel stuff... and the reason was total lack of practise. Almost all my c1 dives were in french caves, where the mainline typically extends outside the cave. So absolutely no need to use a reel.

Good advice to practice reeling and efficiently tie offs.

 

[rjack321]

Hi guys, I have some questions for GUE Cave 2 divers or higher (o instructors, even of different agencies, but with experience enough to answer). I have done 25 cave 1 dives plus a bit of rec and tec experience after my cave one course, and every time I am in a cave, I would like to have a bit more time - the answer is obvious, go for cave 2, right?

Well, the thing is that my experience is almost the bare minimum to start a cave 2 course, so I wonder: am I ready?

So this is what I would like to know from you:
- in your opinion, what are the most demanding challenges in the cave 2 course?
- is there any way to minimize the possibilities of a "fail" for this course? (please, do not answer something like "if you believe you could get a provisional or a fail do not do the course" - I already know it and agree with you )
- how would you say if a person is ready or not?
- usually, 25 dives plus a bit of extra experience is actually ok? or maybe isn't it enough?

Thanks!

25 is a bare minimum, if you are especially talented then sure you can move into C2 on your 26th post course cave dive. 50-75 dives is probably wiser (given the time and expense of C2) and you should be running the reel on at least half of those dives. If you're sucking down 35 bar just running the reel - you are probably not ready.

Can you do a full s-drill in 1.5m of water without rising or falling? How are your kicks? Are they smooth and do you have the body awareness of where your legs are throughout your cave dives? Are you bumping walls or ceilings with any part of our body?

What is your biggest weakness as a C1 diver? How many different caves have you been diving in? Are they all in France or have you been to MX or FL or Spain or Norway?

 

[ls23]

@ginti Just a suggestion (only a C1 diver myself): Have you been to Sardinia yet? There is a new GUE base in Cala Gonone. Great place for Europeans to practice reeling, you have to do it with the waves breaking over you sometimes and over a bit of distance. With the caves being relatively shallow and warm you can also get quite far with C1 rules and Andrea might be a good person to ask about C2, being a C2 instructor himself.

 

[rddvet]

If you're posting how to minimize failing, then that should be a red flag in your mind that you need more time in the water, imo. I did approximately 80-100 dives when I moved from cave 1 to cave 2, though mind you I wasn't a gue diver at the time.
I am of the opinion that cave 1 gives you enough leniency in what you can do that you don't really need to rush to the next class. You should be learning the caves you dive like the back of your hand aka progressive penetration. My recommendation would be to keep diving and gaining experience, while slowing down. The number one issue I see with new cave divers is they want to go fast and far, rather than slowing it down and refining the basics.
I'm a firm believer in not wanting to just have the bare minimum requirements (aka 25 dives) to take a class