DIR- GUE GUE Cave 2 - ready?

[ginti]

You absolutely need to be very proficient with a reel for C2 so if all your post class dives have managed to avoid copious reel practice you'll need to find some reel time somewhere

I would say that I did around five dives with a reel, including the dives of the tech1 course. I never found it difficult, but the practice was not enough.

Finding a place to practice is not an issue: I can do it even in open water, possibly very shallow, to make the exercise more difficult, increase bottom time, and add other drills. I can dedicate some dives to training, so if I stay shallow I can collect a lot of hours of practice. However, what does "proficient" mean? That's the tricky part for me

There are a few threads on the issue of Mexico vs. Florida for training.

I have just read this one, a good thread; thanks for the suggestion

Mexico vs Florida (better training caves)

Which of the two make for a better training environment? Mexico with its shallow depths allowing more bottom time per dive or Florida with high flows?

scubaboard.com

 

[rjack321]

However, what does "proficient" mean? That's the tricky part for me

Do you stop and hover motionless to do tieoffs? Or are your feet constantly sculling?

Do you get all turned around? Or are you facing into the cave?

If you buddy goes OOA at the same time you are doing your secondary tieoff are you aware of the problem and can you address it? or are your hyper focused on the reel?

How is your light discipline while running the reel? stable or erratic?

Are you using good tie offs or just slapping it on? Is it tight? What does your line running look like when there's already another primary (or more) in the system? Do you follow correct protocols and can you easily find an alternate route or do you make a mess of the entrance?

Can you run the reel and route find your way in at the same time? Or do you head off in random compass directions and take 20mins to find the mainline?

 

[ginti]

Do you stop and hover motionless to do tieoffs? Or are your feet constantly sculling?

Do you get all turned around? Or are you facing into the cave?

If you buddy goes OOA at the same time you are doing your secondary tieoff are you aware of the problem and can you address it? or are your hyper focused on the reel?

How is your light discipline while running the reel? stable or erratic?

Are you using good tie offs or just slapping it on? Is it tight? What does your line running look like when there's already another primary (or more) in the system? Do you follow correct protocols and can you easily find an alternate route or do you make a mess of the entrance?

Can you run the reel and route find your way in at the same time? Or do you head off in random compass directions and take 20mins to find the mainline?

Thanks, it helps. The answers are "good" only for three questions: I am aware of my buddy if he goes OOA, I can find the entrance without going in random directions (but I am not fast!) and I do not make (too much of) a mess when other lines are inside the cave. Besides those three points, it seems there is a bit (lot) to work on...

 

[Lorenzoid]

Do you stop and hover motionless to do tieoffs? Or are your feet constantly sculling?

One of the things I find most difficult in running the reel is doing it where the contour of the bottom slopes downward, and so I have to position myself head-down/feet-up to do tie-offs. Adjusting buoyancy as I go. And doing it in flow.

 

[rjack321]

One of the things I find most difficult in running the reel is doing it where the contour of the bottom slopes downward, and so I have to position myself head-down/feet-up to do tie-offs. Adjusting buoyancy as I go. And doing it in flow.

Flow can actually help, if you are kicking to stay in position (and avoid going backwards) that can mask minor buoyancy issues - combined with breathing at the top or bottom of your lungs you can potentially be ok. Compared to going steeply downslope, in a narrow, potentially decorated, tunnel with no flow. Or worse, on CCR.

Being consistently adept with a reel is a key C2 skill, because upon graduation, you are "certified" to be exploring and laying line in any cave - whether there are existing lines or not. If all you can do is struggle or sloppily tie into a mainline that's not the "full cave" level. Your first post class dive shouldn't be exploring of course, you need time and dives to solidify your skills. But, there won't be an instructor hovering nearby to critique you again.

 

[rjack321]

Full disclosure... we all get turned sideways or around sometimes, its not the end of the world and in some cases it's actually the most efficient way to make forward progress. I agree that being 40+ degrees head down doing tie-offs is a challenge for most everyone! Figuring out a way to just swim through that body position and still get the requisite tieoffs done (when you are in a more stable orientation and/or tucked out of the flow) is an art form.

Being a bit discombobulated in C2 on a particularly wacky entry isn't going to be a major "fail" point. Being sloppy or spastic on a basic reel running entry is going to be problematic though.

 

[johnkendall]

Lots of good stuff being said, I'm going to add some more.
Are you likely to go to France again anytime soon? If so, use a reel on every dive. Lay an entire primary reel as you go into each cave. Yes, it'll take some time out of your dive, but it's the best way to practice. And by every dive, I mean every dive. Regardless which sites you're diving. Just because you don't *need* to do it in the French caves, doesn't mean you can't.
Personally I don't think 25 dives is enough before C2. You need to be able to comfortably mentally map the cave. At C2 level you'll be going further, staying longer, doing more complex things, and be more task loaded. You need to have some things automatic, such as building that mental map of the cave, laying a primary reel, retrieving a primary reel (both as the reeling diver and the buddy), good light communication etc etc. Don't worry about stages etc, we teach that on the class.
The suggestion about practice with pockets is also spot on. You'll be working your pockets a lot. Make sure you can deal with your pigtail, make sure you can get spools out and in.

Happy to have a chat if you like, I've dived and taught in all the places you're considering.

Thanks

John

 

[mer]

the limited bottom time of Florida's caves is absolutely a downside.

@ginti This is a myth...
The Mexico caves are shallower, the tanks are smaller, the fill pressures lower.
The Florida caves are deeper, the tanks are bigger, and the fill pressures border on stupid (aka much higher).

The net result... bottom time is about equivalent FL vs Mx.

At C2, the deco in FL is real, which has value. At C1, the larger tanks mean that it's pretty hard to not be above the minimum starting volume of 100cf (2800L) after dive one on a set. So you *almost always* get a second dive on one set of tanks in FL; this is not often the case with double 80s (D11s) in low flow unless you haul ass out of the cave after thumbing it.

Florida has both low flow and high flow, shallowish and deep enough that tracking exposure/deco matters... the variety of conditions provides great training opportunities.

I love cave diving everywhere, but there's a reason I chose FL as my home teaching base.

 

[ginti]

Your first post class dive shouldn't be exploring of course, you need time and dives to solidify your skills. But, there won't be an instructor hovering nearby to critique you again.

Not exploring, but going further from the mainline is a possibility, especially if participating in projects (one of my goals). For instance, when collecting data on the opposite side of the mainline in a big room.

Better be solid in this skill

 

[jadairiii]

This is a myth...
The net result... bottom time is about equivalent FL vs Mx.

Sorry Mer, having been diving in both FL and Mx, there is no way BT is equivalent.

I've done 100 min in Otoch Ha on a single alum 80 stage (didn't bury the stage) and never touched my back gas, no deco, swimming the whole time. You aint going to do that in Florida, anywhere.....expect Blue Grotto.

Average depth in Nohoch is 15', you know how long a singe 80 stage will last you in 15' of water? You'll get tired before you hit your turn pressure. Verses diving Ginnie?