GUE (and other non-PADI) Open Water Standards for No-Deco Limits

[Storker]

Well, it's an improvement over the "just follow the guide" approach that was prevalent when I did my PADI OW. With those ops, none of the customers had computers, and nobody planned dives with tables or whatever. We just had mechanical depth gauge, no watch, and trust the dive master ...

I'm not an instructor, but that looks a lot like a serious breach of standards to me.

PADI claims that their OW is ISO 24801-2 compliant, and ISO 24801-2 is the standard for "Recreational Scuba Diver Level 2 Autonomous diver". If a student is certified without ever having planned a dive or even been taught how to monitor their bottom time and NDL, I can't understand that they in any way can be considered "autonomous".

Competencies of a recreational scuba diver at level 2 "Autonomous Diver"

A scuba diver at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" shall be trained to have sufficient knowledge, skill and experience to dive with other scuba divers of at least the same level in open water without supervision of a scuba instructor.

Scuba divers at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" are qualified to dive within the following parameters unless they have additional training or are accompanied by a dive leader:

• dive to a recommended maximum depth of 20 m with other scuba divers of the same level,
• make dives, which do not require in-water decompression stops,
• dive only when appropriate support is available at the surface,
• dive under conditions that are equal or better than the conditions where they were trained.

If diving conditions are significantly different from those previously experienced, a scuba diver at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" requires an appropriate orientation from a dive leader.

If accompanied by a scuba instructor, a scuba diver at level 2 "Autonomous Diver" may gain progressive experience beyond these parameters and develop competency in managing more challenging diving conditions (e.g. increased depth and current, reduced visibility, extreme temperatures) designed to lead to higher qualifications.

Competencies and qualifications - EUF Certification

In my country, we have national regulations for sport diver education. Among other things, the regulations require a minimum of six open water dives over a minimum of three days, and the student is required to be able to monitor their bottom time and be aware of what their NDL is. When I took my OW, the last two dives were planned by the student and only supervised by the instructor or a DM.

 

[1atm]

I'm not an instructor, but that looks a lot like a serious breach of standards to me.

PADI claims that their OW is ISO 24801-2 compliant, and ISO 24801-2 is the standard for "Recreational Scuba Diver Level 2 Autonomous diver". If a student is certified without ever having planned a dive or even been taught how to monitor their bottom time and NDL, I can't understand that they in any way can be considered "autonomous".


Competencies and qualifications - EUF Certification

In my country, we have national regulations for sport diver education. Among other things, the regulations require a minimum of six open water dives over a minimum of three days, and the student is required to be able to monitor their bottom time and be aware of what their NDL is. When I took my OW, the last two dives were planned by the student and only supervised by the instructor or a DM.

Oh sure we did plan a dive using tables during the course. But on subsequent dives, especially post course dives, this wasn’t the case. And as a fresh OW diver with a grand total of 4 dives during the OW class, you don’t challenge the dive shop when they tell you it’s a super easy dive, just follow the dive master, he will take care ... but I guess that’s a topic for a different thread.

 

[dmaziuk]

Oh sure we did plan a dive using tables during the course. But on subsequent dives, especially post course dives, this wasn’t the case. And as a fresh OW diver with a grand total of 4 dives during the OW class, you don’t challenge the dive shop when they tell you it’s a super easy dive, just follow the dive master, he will take care ... but I guess that’s a topic for a different thread.

You aren't doing an "autonomous" dive, you're diving below your training level, so?

Seriously though, not everyone is at home in the water after those 4 dives and diving in group led by someone experienced may be just the confidence building experience they need. And if they get stuck in that mode and never do any autonomous diving... well, OK, so if their whole group is swallowed by the Big White Whale and they're having a medical emergency while being OOG underwater, they may have a problem.

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Both of those dives allow you to make an immediate controlled ascent after completing those time/depth combos.

So does 20m (the avg depth of both of those profiles) for 40mins.

It depends what algorithms/table you use. I actualy got a sealing after 17-18 minutes at 30 meter as a square profile.

 

[Dan_P]

At UTD, Min Deco for NDL-dives.

 

[eelnoraa]

It depends what algorithms/table you use. I actualy got a sealing after 17-18 minutes at 30 meter as a square profile.

Which table show NDL of 17 min at 30m?

 

[seeker242]

Which table show NDL of 17 min at 30m?

Never seen a table show that, but a shearwater rec mode on the highest conservatism setting will give 17 min.

 

[blake7]

Never seen a table show that, but a shearwater rec mode on the highest conservatism setting will give 17 min.

That is GFs at work. See Post #79 and Post #101.

 

[taimen]

but a shearwater rec mode on the highest conservatism setting will give 17 min.

That setting is GF 35/75. Tec mode default 30/70 would give you even shorter NDL.

 

[Magnus Lundstedt]

Which table show NDL of 17 min at 30m?

Plan mode in Subsurface, Buhlman deco, 30/70

Plan mode in my computers show about the same.