PADI Deep Diver course- gas management

[Capt Jim Wyatt]

Does instructor guide define what "appropriate gas management" is?

Negative.

 

[jadairiii]

I suspect you already have an opinion on what is "appropriate gas management."
So what answer to your question could be given that you would not argue with?

I do have an "opinion" but that was not the purpose of my original question (read my first post). And I had followed up that I did not want to "argue" the point, merely learn what is being taught, per PADI standards. My last PADI class was in 1982, AI, just wanted to know what is current teaching.

Capt Jim answered it, PADI does not define what "appropriate gas management" is, in the Deep Diver course.

 

[tursiops]

I do have an "opinion" but that was not the purpose of my original question (read my first post). And I had followed up that I did not want to "argue" the point, merely learn what is being taught, per PADI standards. My last PADI class was in 1982, AI, just wanted to know what is current teaching.

Capt Jim answered it, PADI does not define what "appropriate gas management" is, in the Deep Diver course.

Capt Jim did not quote all the relevant parts of the Instructor Manual for Deep Diver.

Appropriate gas management is talked about multiple times in the class. For example, one of the performance objectives of Deep Dive One -- which, by the way, is also the Deep Dive for AOW -- is this:

Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits.​

In the briefing for Deep Dive One, it is suggested to:

5. Have buddy teams plan their turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure for the dive based on gas supply limits.​

6. Have buddy teams establish maximum depths and bottom times, and plan and plan contingency profiles for longer and deeper dives than planned.​

A performance standard for Deep Dive One is specifically about gas management:

a. Before beginning the descent, remind divers to check their starting pressure and make a note of their turn pressure.​

b. During the dive, check cylinder pressures at irregular intervals to confirm appropriate gas management.​

Deep Dives 2-3-4 have similar statements.
Other parts of he IM and the Deep Diver Student Manual discuss gas consumption rates, and how to determine if you have enough gas for the dive.

 

[jadairiii]

Capt Jim did not quote all the relevant parts of the Instructor Manual for Deep Diver.

Appropriate gas management is talked about multiple times in the class. For example, one of the performance objectives of Deep Dive One -- which, by the way, is also the Deep Dive for AOW -- is this:

Plan and manage gas use, including determining turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure. Establish no stop and dive time limits.​

In the briefing for Deep Dive One, it is suggested to:

5. Have buddy teams plan their turn pressure, ascent pressure and reserve pressure for the dive based on gas supply limits.​

6. Have buddy teams establish maximum depths and bottom times, and plan and plan contingency profiles for longer and deeper dives than planned.​

A performance standard for Deep Dive One is specifically about gas management:

a. Before beginning the descent, remind divers to check their starting pressure and make a note of their turn pressure.​

b. During the dive, check cylinder pressures at irregular intervals to confirm appropriate gas management.​

Deep Dives 2-3-4 have similar statements.
Other parts of he IM and the Deep Diver Student Manual discuss gas consumption rates, and how to determine if you have enough gas for the dive.

So what are the PADI parameters to "determine if you have enough gas for the dive"?

That was my initial question.

 

[tursiops]

So what are the PADI parameters to "determine if you have enough gas for the dive"?

That was my initial question.

That's physics -- not PADI -- plus it depends on the dive, plus Instructor input.
If you want recipes, go to PADI Tec.
There is nothing wrong with thirds, back on the boat with 500 psi, leave the bottom at 800 psi, etc, depending on the situation, right?
Remember, this is NDL recreational diving, not deco or tech diving.
I refuse to play "gotcha" with you in your incessant questioning on this issue.

 

[jadairiii]

That's physics -- not PADI -- plus it depends on the dive, plus Instructor input.
If you want recipes, go to PADI Tec.
There is nothing wrong with thirds, back on the boat with 500 psi, leave the bottom at 800 pso, etc, depending on the situation, right?
Remember, this is NDL recreational diving, not deco or tech diving.
I refuse to play "gotcha" with you in your incessant questioning on this issue.

I am really not trying to play "gotcha". But this is called a "deep diver" course, and in this thread PADI instructors were taking students down to 130'.

But your response, along with Capt Jim's (and the rest of the people that posted) was enlightening as it related to my question. From my first post, I now know what to expect when my friend's son takes his Deep Diver course. Thanks, this was what I was looking for.

 

[inquis]

Remember, this is NDL recreational diving

As such, I would hope the gas planning would include calculations to get 2 stressed divers to the surface, along with reasonable assumptions of what a stressed RMV might be.

Does the PADI Deep specialty include the above in its standards, or is it on the instructor to go beyond standards for a student to be taught this?

 

[Lorenzoid]

That's physics -- not PADI -- plus it depends on the dive, plus Instructor input.
If you want recipes, go to PADI Tec.
There is nothing wrong with thirds, back on the boat with 500 psi, leave the bottom at 800 psi, etc, depending on the situation, right?
Remember, this is NDL recreational diving, not deco or tech diving.
I refuse to play "gotcha" with you in your incessant questioning on this issue.

Now that you put it that way, in retrospect, I think "recipes" are exactly what I had envisioned getting out of the PADI Deep Diver course I took years ago. Instead, as I recall, I got a lot of "it depends on the dive," and we didn't plan out a variety of different dives. Diving in the 100-130 ft range really is on the transition between rec and tech. I didn't care for my course because I felt it kept my feet firmly planted in rec, while suggesting that because we're trying to reach farther it is difficult to mitigate the risks. Only later did I appreciate that the ways to mitigate the risks are taught in a straighforward, even formulaic (recipes!) way in tech diving courses.

 

[tursiops]

As such, I would hope the gas planning would include calculations to get 2 stressed divers to the surface, along with reasonable assumptions of what a stressed RMV might be.

Does the PADI Deep specialty include the above in its standards, or is it on the instructor to go beyond standards for a student to be taught this?

It is Parr of the discussion: exactly how it is discussed is up to the instructor. The standards are silent on the details of the discussion, so going into great detail, for example, is not going beyond the standards, but no discussion of SAC/RMV and "when to leave the bottom" would indeed violate the standards, IMHO.
As always, good instructors matter more than good Instructor Manuals.

 

[Cthippo]

Sounds like the whole coirse could really be consolidated down to one or two dives. Gas planning can be taught in the dry. What I feel is really needed is a controlled experience of "when do I personally get narced and what does it feel like".