GUE (and other non-PADI) Open Water Standards for No-Deco Limits

[yle]

By not blindly, I mean we were required to be aware of dive time and average depth. The table number serve as the upper limit.of dive time at specific depth. I think you are right, that part is a blind trust based on supposed accumulated data. What I was trying to say is the " let's splash and see what the computer says" was not the way taught in the class.

This is not the way the PADI OW course is supposed to be taught either. As an instructor for my fun job (scuba) and my real job (not scuba), I can confidently claim that students tend to forget things that are presented in class, learned for the quiz or exam, but then are not regularly reinforced. And this is the difference between training from PADI and from GUE (or similar agencies): many PADI students get certified and then do not dive regularly, so what they learned is not reinforced. GUE trainees, by nature, tend to dive more than the average PADI trainee.

But to suggest that a PADI student does not remember proper dive planning, so it must not have been taught in their class is illogical and incorrect.

 

[dmaziuk]

But to suggest that a PADI student does not remember proper dive planning, so it must not have been taught in their class is illogical and incorrect.

What's "proper dive planning" for a PADI student whose regular dive plan is deciding whether to go left or right from the buoy until half-tank?

 

[BlueTrin]

What's "proper dive planning" for a PADI student whose regular dive plan is deciding whether to go left or right from the buoy until half-tank?

My (very limited) experience is that it is not about the agency but the mindset of the person.

If you compare a (mostly) recreational agency vs another agency which is more focused on technical divers you will have obviously on average less people doing proper planning. This is because the agency attracted people with different mindsets ?

 

[dmaziuk]

If you compare a (mostly) recreational agency vs another agency which is more focused on technical divers you will have obviously on average less people doing proper planning. This is because the agency attracted people with different mindsets ?

Well, GUE does I expect. I also expect comparing PADI OW with, say, @Storker's CMAS cert, and their respective requirements for dive planning and execution, is a bit of an apples to oranges.

 

[tursiops]

What's "proper dive planning" for a PADI student whose regular dive plan is deciding whether to go left or right from the buoy until half-tank?

At the very least, dive against the current on the outbound leg, and mind your NDL and your SPG.
Although, I'm not sure why I'm answering as your goal always seems to be to nitpick and digress rather than learn or discuss.

 

[Storker]

What's "proper dive planning" for a PADI student whose regular dive plan is deciding whether to go left or right from the buoy until half-tank?

While I have no idea about what your hypothetical PADI student may or may not be competent to do, I know what I was competent to do after my OW certification: to plan my max depth and my bottom time, to plan the general direction of my dive and communicate that to my dive leader. And of course follow my plan..

I may have been an exceptional student, but for some reason I doubt that.

 

[Storker]

I also expect comparing PADI OW with, say, @Storker's CMAS cert

My CMAS cert is 3* and thus not comparable to PADI OW. If you were comparing 1* with OW or 3* with DM, we might have an interesting discussion, but you're comparing apples with bananas.

 

[BlueTrin]

My CMAS cert is 3* and thus not comparable to PADI OW. If you were comparing 1* with OW or 3* with DM, we might have an interesting discussion, but you're comparing apples with bananas.

I have seen all kind of buddies with BSAC: some very thorough even at Ocean Diver and some who don’t care or won’t pay attention when I try to do a briefing and will stay in my back during dives even when I ask them to try to stay by my side.

My last non-PADI insta buddy:

• Didn’t want to listen or pay attention to any briefing
• Didn’t follow what we agreed when we got separated in low viz
• Had a failure pre-dive with his inflator and before we fixed it, he told me that he didn’t bother cleaning properly his equipment after dives
• He told me that he will breathe down his tank a very low pressure for the second dive even when I mentioned that he shouldn’t: he didn’t want to change his tanks to avoid paying a second refill
• The other insta buddy dashed away on the way back without waiting and didn’t wait for my other insta buddy

 

[yle]

What's "proper dive planning" for a PADI student whose regular dive plan is deciding whether to go left or right from the buoy until half-tank?

I could tell you, but you need to enroll in my OW course first.

And you're proving my point: PADI gets bashed because people like yourself base their opinions of PADI training on the ability of PADI divers. The problem is that a large proportion of PADI divers are those that rarely dive, unlike divers from other agencies (I would imagine a large proportion of GUE divers are really serious about diving... and dive all the time.)

So you meet a PADI diver who dives once a year, they don't remember anything from their OW course they took several years before... and people like you naturally assume that it's because nothing was covered in the course. The assumption is simply incorrect. The problem is with the divers, not the training that they were given (but have since forgotten.)

With that said, I can't rightly claim that all PADI instructors cover proper dive planning in their OW courses. I can only claim that it is part of the PADI OW course.

 

[tursiops]

I have seen all kind of buddies with BSAC: some very thorough even at Ocean Diver and some who don’t care or won’t pay attention when I try to do a briefing and will stay in my back during dives even when I ask them to try to stay by my side.

My last non-PADI insta buddy:

• Didn’t want to listen or pay attention to any briefing
• Didn’t follow what we agreed when we got separated in low viz
• Had a failure pre-dive with his inflator and before we fixed it, he told me that he didn’t bother cleaning properly his equipment after dives
• He told me that he will breathe down his tank a very low pressure for the second dive even when I mentioned that he shouldn’t: he didn’t want to change his tanks to avoid paying a second refill
• The other insta buddy dashed away on the way back without waiting and didn’t wait for my other insta buddy

I think you are confused. You are supposed to bash PADI, not BSAC!