Group diving - must have DM by law?

[Teamcasa]

I received a PM from a member that said she was told by a shop that it is Hawaiian State Law that all divers must dive as a group, lead by a Divemaster. She wants to book a dive to Niihau Island (maybe it is different there) but as a photographer she does not want to do a speed dive following a guide.

I have dived many times with several different dive shops in Hawaii and had never heard of that before. Is the shop just covering themselves? Is there an actual law?

 

[KrisB]

There are several shops that claim that, but it kind of flies in the face of the idea that two certified divers can rent gear and go dive. I have not once heard of anyone having issues with this -- whether it's a shore dive or a private boat dive.

I suspect that this is simply the operator covering themselves and/or a mis-informed phone-answering person.

If anyone has an actual reference to the state law that says this, I'd like to see it -- and anyone that claims such a statement should be able to back it up with that reference.

Now, of course, since we're talking about Niihau and booking with an operator, you are stuck with that operator's policies. If their policy is that every diver be a part of a group with a DM/Instructor, then that's the only way you're going diving with them.

As I understand it, Niihau can have some challenging conditions, and it really is in the diver's best interest to have a buddy and an experienced guide that is watching out for changing conditions -- especially since your friend is a photographer and is likely going to have her attention focused on the photography.

The best bet would likely be to talk to the operator about her concerns -- some operators have DMs that actually go slow enough for photographers to do what they want to do!

 

[Charlie99]

I doubt that there is a law. The Coast Guard does have some recommendations that end up being applied almost as if they were laws. My guess is that you are hearing a mangled version of a Coast Guard "recommended practice".

It's pretty much the same as some of the general industry scuba standards regarding certification, tank inspections, etc. There isn't any law saying that dive ops can't let non-certified dives jump off the boat and go diving by themselves, but if something happens they have additional liability exposure because they weren't following "industry standards" or "standard practices". Same sort of thing regarding dive shops filling tanks without visual or hydros, or filling tanks for non-certified divers. There aren't any laws that say not to do this, but you won't find many shops willing to violate this industry practices.

At least in Maui, the Coast Guard has some recommendations/requirements about crew size and having a spotter onboard for drift dives. There isn't any law that I know of. It doesn't seem to be a requirement by the Coast Guard in other areas, but after Maui Diamond II lost 8 divers for 5 or 6 hours back around 2004, the Maui Coast Guard has had this rule.

 

[friscuba]

No law, but as far as I know there was a pretty big settlement in an Oahu case last year where a diver died while under supervison, within recommended agency standards, with fully signed waivers, a Coast Guard representative at the trial said the death may have been preventable with more supervision... the insurance companies said "settle" rather than fight it further at that point.

When you've got Coast Guard representatives going to trials and giving thier opinions about what should occur underwater, which is arguably not thier jurisdiction, it's a sticky situation for dive operators. Probably 80% or more of the divers who come to Hawaii to dive don't even have 20 dives under their belts, so it's in an operator's own best interest to see that they're supervised in most cases. The fact that 6 divers per guide is practically the unofficial standard here, if something should happen to an unguided diver, arguing certified divers are responsible for their own safety and the operator has no responsibility isn't likely to work in local courts.

I suspect there's still operators here that'll let people dive on thier own, but that's probably getting to be less common.

 

[Shaka Doug]

I never heard of such a law. Niihau does have special considerations but having a DM by law? I don't think so.

 

[Hank49]

It seems odd that they'd have a law saying you need a divemaster and a group to dive in a state that allows any surfer to paddle out on huge days. Or am I missing something?

 

[KrisB]

It seems odd that they'd have a law saying you need a divemaster and a group to dive in a state that allows any surfer to paddle out on huge days. Or am I missing something?

Oh! You expect the laws of Hawaii to *make sense*? Why would they be any different from those of any other region?

 

[Hank49]

Well, the few dives I did in Hawaii..back in about 1980...neither myself or my father in law were even certified, although he'd done about 10,000 dives by then. We just walked down the hill and out on the rocks at Hanauma Bay and jumped in. No worries....

 

[MauiScubaSteve]

I have posted regulations, be they State, Federal, boating, or commercial related, where the wording of the regulation could be interpreted to mean guided. My current search of web AND ScubaBoard has not yielded similar results.

IIRC, there is wording that scuba customers be under the supervision of the divemaster, and while some feel this is not supposed to mean guided dives IF there is an accident any competent lawyer would point out that a DM watching bubbles from the swim step during a 100' Molokini wall drift is hardly diving under supervision. Or for that matter a 70' second dive on the St. Anthony; or even an hour long 30' max Red Hill drift (cavern/swimthrough at the end).

If another accident claim comes up in court (hopefully not when) it remains to be seen what the official definition of supervision is, considering the afore mentioned Hawaii Kai precedent.

 

[DiveWestOahu]

The fact that 6 divers per guide is practically the unofficial standard here, if something should happen to an unguided diver, arguing certified divers are responsible for their own safety and the operator has no responsibility isn't likely to work in local courts.


I've seen a shop here on O'ahu who uses a ratio of 12 customers to 1 divemaster candidate,, of course the've been 86'd from all the good boats (because of that) and have had to buy their own