Ground-up DIR divers and preparation for the real world

[Rainer]

Do you have *any* clue what the GUE and UTD OW courses involve? Your posts would suggest not.

Ah, so the actual comparisons here are between GUE's and UTD's Recreational curricula and the BOW of other agencies though the GUE's and UTD's Recreational curricula includes BOW, AOW, Rescue and Nitrox?

 

[mikeguerrero]

Greg,

I would like to add something really small to your thread that should be stated. One can defend and promote your diving agency until you turn blue in the face, but two other areas are often seriously overlooked and they are # of dives and divesite.

Let me explain:

I dive with both DIR and nonDIR divers often more so the non/dir diver. I don't separate my diving becuase of a label. I go with experience when I make the decision to dive with a new partner.

If I feel the diver has a certain amount of dives in home territory I will feel that warrants a good dive buddy.

Recently, my dive computer calculated that claim, in a recent dive in doubles, I dove with non/dir dive masters that showed me the way. A combination of lots of gas plus a warm and fuzzy feeling with two excellent divers produced an influence on my lowest SAC rate up to date.

Number of dives and experience in local waters certainly influences my mindset to a good diver, and that's half the battle....

 

[Kingpatzer]

This kind of "problem" isn't really DIR-specific though. I've been on a few resort and cattle boats, and you see all kinds of gear, from banded to slung ponies, big video rigs, to octos here, there, tucked and stuffed, to bp/ws, transpacs, FFMs and even rebreathers. I don't think a hog configuration really stands out in "weirdness," in that it'll attract no more attention than any of these other out-of-the-ordinary setups. Further, seeing a one-off bizarre config on a DM-guided boat dive seems less likely to affect a third-party diver who is in the norm, but it does prevent a drastically different environment than what a "DIR-trained" diver would expect.

I don't mean in terms of rig configuration. I dive a bp/w and have never gotten a second look. Rather I mean ideas such as team diving and significant buddy checks and the like would be something foreign to the boat.

For a single day out, no one will really care. But if it's a week long group trip with a dozen other people, I can see the rest of the people on the boat wondering why the DIR-esque OW diver is so concerned with things like gas planning. The questions that such a diver SHOULD be asking (to be consistent with their training) at the dive briefing for example could well exasperating to the rest of the boat who don't have that perspective on diving.

For the majority of the rec diving world, for example, in-depth gas planning isn't part of the drop on the reef type dive. For the GUE diver, it would be expected, and if they are to be true to their training, they should ask the right questions.

 

[TSandM]

Greg, I hate to tell you this, but even DIR trained divers can find gas planning and buddy checks a PITA. (Ask kathydee what she said to Bob about me!)

Regarding diving with non-DIR divers . . . Several of the best divers I've dived with have no DIR training at all, and don't dive the standardized setup we use. Charlie99, who doesn't hang out here much any more, is a diver anyone could hope to emulate, and he's great fun to hang out with, too. gcbryan is another extremely skilled, responsible, and attentive team member who I don't get to dive with as much as I would like.

At some point, each dive means evaluating the person with whom you are diving, and whether they have received a particular agency's training or not is one PART of the information you gather and evaluate. And I think anyone who is wise makes their first dive with any new buddy a conservative one (even if that's conservative in terms of what their training is, so a "conservative" dive with a Tech 2 buddy is different from a "conservative" dive with an unknown instabuddy on a boat).

What DIR training does for you is give you a lot of information about how someone is likely to want to execute a dive, and it gives you a broad common ground of protocols and procedures, signals, and competence in skills. Things you'd have to ask a new buddy about are much more assumed -- although a Fundies graduate who hasn't been in the water in months isn't going to be polished to the same degree as someone who is diving actively.

Although he's not someone I would normally quote, the owner of our local GUE-affiliated shop put it beautifully one morning: DIR is just such a simple way to dive. Standardization simplifies everything.

 

[Blackwood]

Although he's not someone I would normally quote, the owner of our local GUE-affiliated shop put it beautifully one morning: DIR is just such a simple way to dive. Standardization simplifies everything.

Well said. Funny how those of us who like it tend to appreciate it for its simplicity, whereas many of those who don't like it tend to depreciate it for its complexity.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

For the majority of the rec diving world, for example, in-depth gas planning isn't part of the drop on the reef type dive. For the GUE diver, it would be expected, and if they are to be true to their training, they should ask the right questions.

What exactly do you mean by "in-depth"?

It's appropriate to establish with ANY dive buddy at what pressure you should consider beginning your ascent ... this is true regardless of agency affiliation. It's a simple matter to ask the question and agree on a pressure for either turning the dive or beginning the ascent, depending on dive profile. Whoever reaches their pressure first provides the signal, and you begin your ascent.

I learned that in my OW class (YMCA) long before I ever heard of DIR. Didn't you?

Look, we're talking about OW grads here. They're planning a recreational dive ... not managing a deco plan for a dive on the Britannic. There's no need to get terribly in-depth about it. Just understand some basic concepts, establish a turn pressure and go. If your PADI-trained dive buddy can't or won't agree, then find someone else to dive with. There's nothing complicated about that level of gas planning .. and there's also no law that says you have to dive with people who choose to be willfully ignorant.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[rjack321]

What exactly do you mean by "in-depth"?

It's appropriate to establish with ANY dive buddy at what pressure you should consider beginning your ascent ... this is true regardless of agency affiliation. It's a simple matter to ask the question and agree on a pressure for either turning the dive or beginning the ascent, depending on dive profile. Whoever reaches their pressure first provides the signal, and you begin your ascent.

I learned that in my OW class (YMCA) long before I ever heard of DIR. Didn't you?

Look, we're talking about OW grads here. They're planning a recreational dive ... not managing a deco plan for a dive on the Britannic. There's no need to get terribly in-depth about it. Just understand some basic concepts, establish a turn pressure and go. If your PADI-trained dive buddy can't or won't agree, then find someone else to dive with. There's nothing complicated about that level of gas planning .. and there's also no law that says you have to dive with people who choose to be willfully ignorant.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Exactly, you don't even have to get into the why's. I rarely dive with instabuddy's but when I do it goes like this:

me: I'd like to either turn around and head upslope at 1500psi or ascend directly if we get to 900psi
instabuddy: uh ok sure I guess, seems like alot of gas leftover...

dive

I see his gauge at 1700psi
I turn dive min or 2 later
We gradually ascend upslope
I see his gauge 7 mins later
I slow us down and look for cool critters at increasingly shallow depths
We spend >10mins from 40ft to surface
His computer gets further into the "green" than at the end of any previous dive
He surfaces with 600psi
I surface with 1200psi

I am happy

He wonders how he did such a cool multilevel dive, and feels great with someone new who's only diving a bottom timer.

The End

 

[ScubaGypsy]

Do you have *any* clue what the GUE and UTD OW courses involve? Your posts would suggest not.

Well perhaps this is true about UTD course(s) but I do have an understanding of GUE OW and advanced courses. However I find your replies provide an absence of insights into any agencies particular curriculum as they instead demonstrate an arrogance that has been associated with DIR training and diving. The unfortunate result of such negativity is that it turns folks away from the positive attributes of DIR.

 

[Rainer]

And what, if anything, should we conclude and generalize about the agencies that trained you based on all the misinformation that you continue to post in this thread?

Your posts about pony bottles and doubles have *nothing* to do with either the UTD or GUE OW courses.

Well perhaps this is true about UTD course(s) but I do have an understanding of GUE OW and advanced courses. However I find your replies provide an absence of insights into any agencies particular curriculum as they instead demonstrate an arrogance that has been associated with DIR training and diving. The unfortunate result of such negativity is that it turns folks away from the positive attributes of DIR.

 

[rjack321]

Well perhaps this is true about UTD course(s) but I do have an understanding of GUE OW and advanced courses. However I find your replies provide an absence of insights into any agencies particular curriculum as they instead demonstrate an arrogance that has been associated with DIR training and diving. The unfortunate result of such negativity is that it turns folks away from the positive attributes of DIR.

Really didn't sound like it to me either so here you go:

UTD Rec1, Page 21
http://api.ning.com/files/eVDjtAKAu...NC3NmKb1-JuYf2il810iBb/UTD_standards_v1_9.pdf

GUE Rec1, Page 12
http://www.gue.com/files/Standards_and_Procedures/GUE_Standards_Version_51.pdf