Ground-up DIR divers and preparation for the real world

[lobstah]

It seems that the DIR diver training places safety very high on the prioriiies list, yet the DIRF diver's safety is very heavily dependent on the buddy system (say for example, redundancy)

Interesting opinion. How is it different for any mainstream agency? I don't see ponies or doubles being taught in OWD?

 

[ligersandtions]

Since most of this thread is a speculation, let me give you some factual information: Both my Rec 1 grads are doing fine outside of a DIR bubble.

Not to be antagonistic, Maciek, but how many dives have your Rec 1 grads done with non-DIR divers? I suspect very few....I could be wrong though.


That said, I have no doubt that a DIR trained diver would have the ability to have a conversation with a potential buddy regarding how they want to make the dive and any protocols that should be followed (min gas, dealing with OOG, etc). They may, however, come out a bit shocked by the end of the dive and be grateful for the buddies who are willing to dive similarly (DIR trained or not).

I do recall my first boat dive with a couple of the DIR trained OW students....they were shocked at the people rocking the split fins and spare air (I won't name any names, but they know who they are ).

 

[TSandM]

I don't think it's a huge problem, but I just think it's possible that someone who had always seen divers with standardized equipment and standardized procedures might not think of all the questions that have to be asked, and the things that have to be checked, when confronted with someone whose gear and procedures are quite different. I know I have forgotten things in the predive stuff, just because we normally don't have to talk about them because we are all the same.

DD, I will agree with you that "team" is part of the expected resources for a DIR diver. I wouldn't do a significant dive without my depth gauge, and I wouldn't do it without a reliable buddy. When I dive with people whose reliability is in doubt (for example, with brand new divers), I provide my own redundancy, including diving double tanks.

 

[Scott L]

I see a similar problem here unless the training is varied, something DIR is not noted for.

Great point. My PADI OW class taught me to use a variety of gear and covered numerous diving philosophies.

Oh, wait...

 

[kanonfodr]

I received a PM this morning in response to the thread and feel it would add to what has already been discussed. And yes, I did get approval from the sender but they wish to remain anonymous

Regarding your post on GUE/UTD Rec certs, and their experience entering the real world:

I have taught several "higher level" OW certification classes. In these the students were essentially taught from the ground up with Fundies level skill requirements, using a long hose, min deco, gas planning, and team awareness. As you can imagine, this class runs longer that a "conventional" class - a bit more than twice as long.

At the end of the class, they are placed in the pool for a session with conventional BC's and octos, as well as with BC's and regs configured with an Air2. Amazingly they all seem to handle the "conventional" gear and procedures just fine, and actually make them look good.

Also, having seen these students (well after graduation) in a resort diving environment, they have universally been the most holistic, nonjudgemental divers I've seen. They just handle the situation, and dive safely with what's around them. Makes me proud.

I should point out that I am not a GUE or UTD instructor, and these classes started long ago, before there even was a GUE Rec1 or whatever class.

Peace,
Greg

 

[liuk3]

Whether DIR/GUE/UTD/ABC/ETC, I'll always have some conversation if it is a new buddy or insta-buddy. I don't filter my dive buddies based upon the agency that issued them some hunk of plastic. Some of my favorite dive buddies have never taken a GUE class. It certainly does make things easier when everyone is diving the same system, but it is not an insurmountable obstacle if they are not. I care more about attitude, personal compatibility and safety than anything. Frankly, some of the worst attitudes I've come across have been the self-pronounced DIR divers who don't dive quite as well as they preach... The dive system works for me, but I'm not going to say it is the best for everyone. Plenty of ways to skin a cat and do it safely I'm sure, especially if diving at recreational depths. It does seem that over time my friends have sought out the same system even if they have not taken a formal class in it. I also haven't had a problem picking up an ill-fitting jacket BC rental and making it work for a week of tropical recreational diving. You just do what you gotta do to adapt, dive safely and have fun.

 

[RJP]

It seems that the DIR diver training places safety very high on the prioriiies list, yet the DIRF diver's safety is very heavily dependent on the buddy system (say for example, redundancy).

In fact, as I think about it, I am pretty confident that my personal stroke gear configuration (computer, console, BC jacket, pony bottle, Air 2 inflator, knife on my leg, snorkel on my mask) is SAFER than a DIR configured diver when paired up with a typical recreational diver, simply because my safety does NOT depend on my buddy.

Looks like you don't have a very strong grasp of the whole DIR thing, do you?

 

[Rainer]

Well said.

Look, it comes down to having conversations with new-to-you divers about gear and procedures. That's regardless of what agency did your OW class.

Whether DIR/GUE/UTD/ABC/ETC, I'll always have some conversation if it is a new buddy or insta-buddy. I don't filter my dive buddies based upon the agency that issued them some hunk of plastic. Some of my favorite dive buddies have never taken a GUE class. It certainly does make things easier when everyone is diving the same system, but it is not an insurmountable obstacle if they are not. I care more about attitude, personal compatibility and safety than anything. Frankly, some of the worst attitudes I've come across have been the self-pronounced DIR divers who don't dive quite as well as they preach... The dive system works for me, but I'm not going to say it is the best for everyone. Plenty of ways to skin a cat and do it safely I'm sure, especially if diving at recreational depths. It does seem that over time my friends have sought out the same system even if they have not taken a formal class in it. I also haven't had a problem picking up an ill-fitting jacket BC rental and making it work for a week of tropical recreational diving. You just do what you gotta do to adapt, dive safely and have fun.

 

[elmer fudd]

Seems to me that a DIR diver who dives with an unknown instabuddy has strayed far away from the plantation.

I'm not a DIR diver myself, but from what I have read of it the central core principle of it is that you dive as part of a properly equipped, trained and coordinated team. Taking on what is likely a poorly equipped and relatively unskilled dive buddy and then stepping off the boat with no more plan than maybe, "descend to 70', look around and surface at 500 psi", would seem to be violating every principle of DIR there is.

 

[ScubaGypsy]

Interesting opinion. How is it different for any mainstream agency? I don't see ponies or doubles being taught in OWD?

Really?? I was taught to use a pony bottle in my NASDS AOW course in 1986 as my instructor prepared us for solo diving. More recently I have seen pony bottles introduced in PADI AOW for deep diving.

Doubles and redundancy are obviously introduced early in NSS-CDS and NACD courses though these are not likely considered mainstream agencies.