Ground-up DIR divers and preparation for the real world

[lobstah]

Since most of this thread is a speculation, let me give you some factual information: Both my Rec 1 grads are doing fine outside of a DIR bubble.

 

[dumpsterDiver]

I wonder how a DIRF diver is going to mesh when s/he is placed with an insta-buddy who is configured for self reliance, pony bottle, possibly no octopus etc. It seems that the DIR diver training places safety very high on the prioriiies list, yet the DIRF diver's safety is very heavily dependent on the buddy system (say for example, redundancy). The DIR system's heavy reliance upon the buddy system (rather than self sufficience and personal redundancy) would result in a serious compromise in safety, compared to what is taught as appropriate to the new DIRF diver. I can't help to think that the new DIRF diver who has grown accustom to betting his life on a buddy with a particular type of gear configuration and mind set would feel especially vunerable when paired up with a more typical diver.


Of course the simple answer is dive with another DIR configured diver, but the OP question seems to be about real world divers who probably have no long hose and may have other perceived deficiencies as well.

Personally, I would NEVER feel comfortable pairing up with an insta-buddy if Ii was depending on him and his gear for my survival if something bad happened.

In fact, as I think about it, I am pretty confident that my personal stroke gear configuration (computer, console, BC jacket, pony bottle, Air 2 inflator, knife on my leg, snorkel on my mask) is SAFER than a DIR configured diver when paired up with a typical recreational diver, simply because my safety does NOT depend on my buddy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

It seems to me that most people who choose the more comprehensive DIR system of training from the beginning are well aware that others types of Scuba training/equipment exist. Paying the extra money to learn to dive in this style is probably a choice informed by plenty of prior research into various training paths. So, except for the rare individual who has indeed been sheltered by perhaps a spouse, I doubt these divers actually live entirely in a DIR bubble.

I think that the DIR OW student being steered into the course by a DIR friend or family member is more the rule than the exception ... and that the person entering the class knows little more about alternative programs than any other prospective OW student would.

I’d suspect that given the extra training, OW DIR trained divers are at least as capable of safely diving with different dive partners/systems/equipment, as OW non-DIR trained divers are.

I agree ... but that sets a pretty low bar ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[AndyNZ]

Heck, my PADI OW course emphasized that you always do buddy checks, pre-dive equipment checks, and maintain good buddy contact, communication and situational awareness.

LOL, I've always said that PADI are the most DIR training agency out there... they just don't know it yet.

 

[herman]

Unfortunately, piikki, I think it's quite possible that a DIR OW class would not take the time to talk about different configurations and explain that, out in the larger diving world, there are many people diving different gear and using different procedures. It is, to an extent, one of the weaknesses of the curriculum as I have seen it. For example, in my NACD Full Cave class, my instructor was quite careful to ensure that I knew all the issues that had to be brought up and gone over before a cave dive, assuming that my buddies might have differences in equpment, marking protocols, communication techniques, etc. We never did any of that in my GUE classes, simply because the assumption is that you will be diving with other GUE divers.

In fact, when I failed to get upset when a buddy had his spool and markers hanging from his butt d-ring, and gave as an excuse that I saw they were there but wondered if that was simply where he was accustomed to carrying them, my instructor was quite annoyed with me. I was expected to assume that everyone with whom I dive will follow the procedures I was taught.

It might very well be a weakness of the recreational curriculum. I don't know. Very few GUE or UTD OW classes have been taught so far.

I think it's a good question that kanonfodr raises.

Exactly, you react the way you are trained and if you are trained and practice in one method that is exactly what you are going to expect and do in a real event. In a high stress situation if something unexpected is presented many people will just freeze. Not doing realistic training, ie, doing OOA drills in several differnet ways is asking for problems. The assumption that because someone is DIR trained they will just respond as needed is wishful thinking. An example that comes to mind comes from police firearms training. Years ago on the range, officers were taught to draw, fire twice and reholster. That works fine against paper targets but it got officers killed in the real world. When faced with a real gunfight officers did exactly what they did in training- draw, fire twice and reholster, problem was unlike the paper targets, the bad guys used the time to shoot back. Reacting exactly like they were taught got them killed, I see a similar problem here unless the training is varied, something DIR is not noted for.

 

[kathydee]

I agree ... but that sets a pretty low bar ...
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Oh, not really. I guess my sarcasm wasn't entirely clear .

 

[AndyNZ]

Personally, and there is no insult intended here, but this thread is....

.... making a mountain out of a molehill.


Lobstah has commented that his Rec1 students integrate with non-DIR divers easily enough, and I (and no doubt many others) regularly teach or dive with people who aren't DIR... all it takes is a short brief at the beginning of the dive to explain the differences in equipment and procedures.


So what exactly is the problem?


EDIT: One of my colleagues taught a PADI OW course a couple of months ago, in a BP/W and with a long hose. Every single diver has since been diving in rented BCDs with short hose regs.... they all made that transition, but did hate the experience!

 

[Blackwood]

So what exactly is the problem?

The problem IMO is making safety assumptions about divers with whom you have no personal experience or about whom you have no reliable information.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with DIR.

 

[AndyNZ]

The problem IMO is making safety assumptions about divers with whom you have no personal experience or about whom you have no reliable information.

But that has absolutely nothing to do with DIR.

Exactly. And there are many ways to potentially resolve that problem.... but as to how, well that just depends on the divers on the day.

I am convinced that a Rec 1 diver will have all the tools they need to make a judgement call.

 

[Rainer]

I see a similar problem here unless the training is varied, something DIR is not noted for.

Great point. My PADI OW class taught me to use a variety of gear and covered numerous diving philosophies.

Oh, wait...