Ground-up DIR divers and preparation for the real world

[lobstah]

Is having more accurate and formalized gas planning than "come back with 500 psi" something that impairs you?
Is having 6 fining techniques rather than one something that impairs you?
Is insistence on pre-dive checks something that impairs you?
Is having min. 8 dives in your entry training rather than 4 something that impairs you?
Is being able to shoot an SMB something that impairs you?

Once again, please list specifics. And make sure you compare entry level courses. Being given a "look" on a boat is hardly an impairment.

 

[Gombessa]

I don't mean in terms of rig configuration. I dive a bp/w and have never gotten a second look. Rather I mean ideas such as team diving and significant buddy checks and the like would be something foreign to the boat.

I focused on the gear since that seemed to be the way the conversation was running, but it's exactly the same for dive planning and pre-dive checks, IME. On any given boat, you encounter a wide variety of attitudes regarding gear checks, buddy checks, and even "let me quiz you for a few minutes to gauge your skill and knowledge before we dive together." The diving universe I've seen (and it's a tiny percentage of what many other divers have experienced) seems to be much more than a dichotomy of DIR and non-DIR.

For a single day out, no one will really care. But if it's a week long group trip with a dozen other people, I can see the rest of the people on the boat wondering why the DIR-esque OW diver is so concerned with things like gas planning.

Well, that depends. Are you envisioning a day boat on a 40ft reef with a DIR diver pouring over a decoplanner table, calculating SAC rates and converting psi to cuft for min gas? That might be kinda weird for anyone, probably even on an all-DIR boat. But for a DIR diver who has a good sense of the exposure profile, the whole conversation can go something like, "we're at 40ft on an AL80, so let's turn the dive and head back when one of us hits 1200psi, and start our ascent no later than the first of us hitting 600psi. You wanted to do min at 15ft for the safety stop? Works for me. Let's go!"

If you dive the same reef again, you don't need to need to go through that whole conversation, as long as you and your buddy agree to run the same profile.

You don't need to walk through the whole calculation for an instabuddy, and as long as the plan is determined safe/conservative enough for both buddies, and agreed upon, that's fine. The hypothetical conversation above falls in the middle of gas planning I've seen from "normal," non-DIR divers, with the other extremes being the "back on the boat with 500?" and more detailed discussion of each diver's SAC rates, deferring turn pressures decisions to runtime, and checking pressure every 500psi. Again, real world practices seem to run the gamut regardless of whether DIR is involved.

 

[Randy43068]

With the introductions of both GUE's and UTD's Recreational curricula, divers can now be started from the bat down the DIR path. I believe these steps open amazing possibilities for the advancement of basic OW diver training right from the start to create a better class of "new guy" who won't suffer from the many learning curves divers from other, more mainstream, curricula may. This thread is not a jab at either curricula as both organizations are known for producing top-notch training programs, more a jab at the archetypical OW diver.

That being said, I question if the training that both DIR organizations are offering prepares the diver for the real world, where your buddy may or may not give a darn about you, other divers will be running you over, and the split fins and Air2s seem to rule the roost. I won't even start on poodle jackets, lack of a long hose, or other non-DIR equipment choices.

I feel that, coming from the non-DIR world into the DIR world, I can always fall back on my experiences pre-DIR to help me through the tough spots in insta-buddy vacation diving because it's not a new thing to me, it was how I started. A diver that didn't have those experiences may find themselves overwhelmed or worse disenfranchised with diving as a whole from what the rest of the diving public considers "the norm."

Bonus points for first-hand experiences as such, I understand that few divers have been trained by either organization in the manner of which I am speaking.

Peace,
Greg

Huh??

 

[boulderjohn]

I've got to admit this thread has been confusing to me, and have had trouble figuring out where it seems to be going. I hope I can say something helpful and not contribute to someone else's confusion.

Back when I had only a vague notion of what DIR was and was myself strictly a conventional open water diver, I did a number of dives buddied with DIR-trained people. I met these people through SB. We spent a few minutes before each dive talking about things like how we donate in an OOA emergency, etc., then jumped in and had very nice dives.

When I started getting technical training in the DIR mode in doubles, for a good while I kept all my old singles gear for recreational vacation dives. Again, I would dive with DIR people. It would be the same except that I would save some time by telling them I knew the drill about their equipment, at least. They had the brilliance to understand mine.

Having gone from an OW diver occasionally diving with DIR people to a DIR-trained diver myself, my perspective is that the original question does not give people much credit for intelligence. It really isn't all that hard to adapt to different configurations. In my old days, I was once in a situation where I needed to donate briefly to a long hose diver; he managed to accept my conventional octo without a whole lot of confusion. A few months ago I was in a recreational situation where I donated my long hose a number of times (not emergencies--long story) to people who had never seen one before diving with me. They took it each time without a hitch.

I do think there is some confusion about the degree to which DIR advocates gas planning, etc. which leads people to think the way people do. This confusion is promoted by the things some people have said in this regard, things that are different from what has been said in this thread and different from everything I have personally experienced.

 

[kathydee]

Greg, I hate to tell you this, but even DIR trained divers can find gas planning and buddy checks a PITA. (Ask kathydee what she said to Bob about me!).

Lynne & Bob really surprised me when we went through a pretty detailed plan/brief/check for a Lumpsucker hunting shore dive in calm water with a max depth of 20 ft and an average depth of about 12 ft .

Considering their experience, I questioned if the detailed brief was standard routine or if it was done on my behalf. It was quite surprising/impressive that Lynne adheres to such diligence before every dive (even when doing a very shallow dive with a regular dive partner)!

Thanks for setting such a great example !

 

[kanonfodr]

Lynne & Bob really surprised me when we went through a pretty detailed plan/brief/check for a Lumpsucker hunting shore dive in calm water with a max depth of 20 ft and an average depth of about 12 ft .

Considering their experience, I questioned if the detailed brief was standard routine or if it was done on my behalf. It was quite surprising/impressive that Lynne adheres to such diligence before every dive (even when doing a very shallow dive with a regular dive partner)!

Thanks for setting such a great example !

It was pretty amazing for my first time with a local DIR diver after my Essentials class. I was so worked up and expecting the full rundown but instead it wasn't much more than a normal dive brief I go over with any other buddy. We set our plan for the dive, Rock Bottom, then after a quick gear check we jumped right into the water.

It was really nice that we didn't have to go over all the details, as we were both similarly trained so we could focus purely on the dive (or in my case, swimming in a faceplant manner of trim since it was my first drysuit dive.)

Peace,
Greg

 

[ae3753]

That being said, I question if the training that both DIR organizations are offering prepares the diver for the real world, where your buddy may or may not give a darn about you, other divers will be running you over, and the split fins and Air2s seem to rule the roost. I won't even start on poodle jackets, lack of a long hose, or other non-DIR equipment choices.

...

A diver that didn't have those experiences may find themselves overwhelmed or worse disenfranchised with diving as a whole from what the rest of the diving public considers "the norm."

Nope, they will not be overwhelmed or disenfranchised with diving.

My concern is that they become snobs and not want to dive with non-DIR divers.

But that's a concern I have with recent Essentials or Fundies grad too.

 

[ucfdiver]

Nope, they will not be overwhelmed or disenfranchised with diving.

My concern is that they become snobs and not want to dive with non-DIR divers.

But that's a concern I have with recent Essentials or Fundies grad too.

I haven't really noticed that with DIR divers. I've made about 50+ dives with a few different GUE C2+T1 divers within the past year without having ever took a GUE course.

But then again, I don't think it's rude to politely deny diving with someone because you have different ideas of how things should be done. Some things I'm willing to give on, some things I'm not. Some dives it matters, some dives it really doesn't...the end result is I think people are offended too easy.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

Nope, they will not be overwhelmed or disenfranchised with diving.

My concern is that they become snobs and not want to dive with non-DIR divers.

But that's a concern I have with recent Essentials or Fundies grad too.

A certain percentage will ... and if experience is any indicator, those few will quickly claw their way through the tech and cave classes, burn out on diving in three to five years, and then go off to become the "best" at some other recreational activity.

Fortunately, they're a small minority of folks who take these classes. The vast majority just want to go out and have fun ... just like everyone else.

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[lamont]

Don't really know what to do about this thread. Technically its on-topic, but its a bit of a trainwreck...

As far as the topic goes, I took my PADI OW course, then read online for a few months, then did post-cert dive #1 in a DIR equipment config and took fundies around dive #25. Never had a problem diving with divers with different configs, other than finding all the bubbles from their gear (including tank neck o-ring leaks on back-mounted, no-spg pony bottles). PADI OW courses don't really teach you anything about diving with divers with air-2s, or any kind of retro gear...

The whole "dependent DIR diver" thing is also a complete b**ls**t troll as well. Do you really think that JJ, Casey, or any other GUE T2/C2 instructor can't dive independently? And it isn't GUE coming up with team bailout strategies for rebreathers....