Great White hooked in Florida

[drbill]

Its the locations not the quantity people have issue with, guys have to drive to dive, not an issue you yal but it is to them.

Not sure I understand this. We have to drive to dive as well and the MPAs do not prohibit diving so there's no issues there.

I have no pony in that race (directly anyway), it was just a random example fellas. Locally, gag grouper is closed until july but i cant go on a dive without poking them off of my hogs, or them trying to sneak off with my stringer while I'm busy digging out a fish. Jew fish (flame suit on) are notorious for that action also and again, i cant go on a dive without seeing one or fighting one for "my" fish. A year ago the gags were nothing like that but a short close was all it took for them to be everywhere and adapt to immunity from divers. It sucks now but come july... Lets just say i will fill the freezer, no doubt.

Point is, and don't tell my spearo buds but, I'm fine with closures, fine with catch limits and fine with size limits. I think all of those things make the ocean a better place (some say shooting only big fish makes for a smaller population) but there needs to be an end, one guy feeding his family fresh fish, off the line or spear, and not feeding them long line or netted fish is helping. People who eat the fish from those guys are the problem, not the random spearo or h&l guy. Spearfishing is by far the most sustainable/humane method, zero bycatch, zero punctured bladders, zero wrong fish deaths. We don't spend hours pulling up every fish on the reef looking for the big one, we just go down and get him... only him.

Do you guys think there is such a thing as sustainable fishing? There are thousands of snapper on my ledges, should i shoot them to feed myself and family or no? How many do i need to see on every dive before we have enough?

I should add that I've been an angler and a spearo in my past and would resume the activity for food. My son is a spearo, too. I have no specific objections to fishing... just over fishing. Anyone with any real understanding of our SoCal waters knows that a number of species have been overfished since the population here began skyrocketing after WWII. As early as the early 1900s scientists recognized that some species like giant sea bass were already in trouble and by 1950 our Dept. of Fish & Game had to restrict take of formerly common species such as kelp (calico) bass. Urchins abound in many mainland (and some island) locations in part because their predators (sheephead, lobster, etc) have been harvested to the point of little top no control by them.

Our local dive park has been a defacto marine preserve for 40 years and a legal one since January of this year. A few dives in it followed by a few in adjacent, unprotected waters where commercial fishing boats from the mainland take as many as 100 anglers to fish one reef can quickly illustrate the difference. Also, our urchin populations remain hidden in the rocks there because the populations of sheephead and lobster are quite healthy.

However, the presence of many divers in the park also means that some species like shovelnose guitarfish, angel shark, leopard shark, etc. are rarely seen in the park yet can be found in greater numbers adjacent to the park.

 

[John from the burg]

When i say "drive to dive" i mean, keep in mind Im relaying this, that the old sugar holes guys used to pull their fish out of right up the street are closed now. Now people have to drive to bfe just to hunt and dodge drug smugglers on their pangas lol, i know you guys don't care about the plight of the cali spearfisher but some of them are good dudes and should be able to do what they love just like anyone.

I think we mostly agree my friend.

Sounds like a hell of a dive spot yal got there, I've been to a few spots around SD to shoot some fish but i never got a name and i don't think that was an accident lol. You guys have some amazing stuff right off the shore over there and parts of me are very jealous, most of me loves tampa bay way to much to leave though.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

Kind of necro-ing this thread after a couple of months, but where was the report that these guys "saw" what they were after before they hooked the white shark? From the account I heard they were fishing in the area the day before, got a big hit, and decided to go back the next day to see what it was. They didn't get a good look until it was hooked and at the surface.

I consider myself a conservationist (back in January we passed "Mark the Shark" on our way out of Miami Beach, and I asked our captain if he had a torpedo handy), but there is such a thing as overdoing it, especially when you're dealing with charismatic megafauna. It's more than a bit hypocritical to rant and rail at a charter fishing captain incidentally hooking and releasing a shark when you have Nat Geo running documentaries about scientists who hook white sharks, reel them in, hoist them out of the water, and then spend several minutes bolting tags onto them and taking samples. As a marine biologist who's had to work with fishermen, the excuse that you have a degree and filled out a lot of paperwork doesn't go very far. And while I still have my doubts that that work is more science than stunt, the sharks appear to carry on just fine afterwards.

Personally I'm a heck of a lot less concerned about the incidental catch and successful release of one white shark than I am about how hard the species that don't get starring roles on "Shark Week" are being hammered. During my three and a half years diving in Southern California I never saw a live white shark, but I saw my share of freshly mutilated sealions plus a pop-up tag one dropped by Catalina on her way back to the central coast. Makos? Blues? Not a trace. Here in South Florida I haul my gear all the way up to West Palm or Jupiter on the weekends because it's cause for a Hallelujah chorus when you see a single reef shark down on the Key Largo reefs.

Dr. Bill, I can vouch for your points on MPAs - I spent two seasons out on the other end of the island at Wrigley. The contrast between the kelp bass and sheephead inside and outside Big Fisherman's Cove was drastic, and after having done research work on those two species and barred sand bass I came away with the opinion that those guys have been hammered hard in the region. One of my colleagues brought back a ~9" sheephead from San Clemente that had terminal-phase male coloration. That just ain't right.

 

[BVickery]

removed, necro'd thread.

 

[AfterDark]

Kind of necro-ing this thread after a couple of months, but where was the report that these guys "saw" what they were after before they hooked the white shark? From the account I heard they were fishing in the area the day before, got a big hit, and decided to go back the next day to see what it was. They didn't get a good look until it was hooked and at the surface.

I consider myself a conservationist (back in January we passed "Mark the Shark" on our way out of Miami Beach, and I asked our captain if he had a torpedo handy), but there is such a thing as overdoing it, especially when you're dealing with charismatic megafauna. It's more than a bit hypocritical to rant and rail at a charter fishing captain incidentally hooking and releasing a shark when you have Nat Geo running documentaries about scientists who hook white sharks, reel them in, hoist them out of the water, and then spend several minutes bolting tags onto them and taking samples. As a marine biologist who's had to work with fishermen, the excuse that you have a degree and filled out a lot of paperwork doesn't go very far. And while I still have my doubts that that work is more science than stunt, the sharks appear to carry on just fine afterwards.

Personally I'm a heck of a lot less concerned about the incidental catch and successful release of one white shark than I am about how hard the species that don't get starring roles on "Shark Week" are being hammered. During my three and a half years diving in Southern California I never saw a live white shark, but I saw my share of freshly mutilated sealions plus a pop-up tag one dropped by Catalina on her way back to the central coast. Makos? Blues? Not a trace. Here in South Florida I haul my gear all the way up to West Palm or Jupiter on the weekends because it's cause for a Hallelujah chorus when you see a single reef shark down on the Key Largo reefs.

Dr. Bill, I can vouch for your points on MPAs - I spent two seasons out on the other end of the island at Wrigley. The contrast between the kelp bass and sheephead inside and outside Big Fisherman's Cove was drastic, and after having done research work on those two species and barred sand bass I came away with the opinion that those guys have been hammered hard in the region. One of my colleagues brought back a ~9" sheephead from San Clemente that had terminal-phase male coloration. That just ain't right.

Here's a little story connected to the tagging of GWs that you mentioned. Last summer at Orleans beach on Cape Cod their was a shark with a very large dorsel fin following a paddle boarder. The picture was in the papers and a video is on youtube. A marine bio. that was tagging GWs with those fishermen you mentioned speculated it may have been a basking shark because of its size. Well after going over the tracking data of a shark they tagged and named Large Marge, they realized that it was Large Marge a 18' female GW, following the paddle board not a Basking shark.
Seems that Large Marge spent most of the summer of 2012 during the day swimming back and forth in front of Orleans beach in 10 feet of water. I'd say information like that is good to know especially if one has the idea of swimming laps at Orleans Beach. Did a submarine just pass under me?

 

[BVickery]

Here's a litle story connected to the tagging of GWs that you mentioned. Last summer at Oleans beach on Cape Cod their was a shark with a very large dorsel fin following a paddle boarder. The picture was in the papers and a video is on youtube. A marine bio. that was tagging GWs with those fishermen you mentioned speculated it may have been a basking shark because of its size. Well after going over the tracking data of a shark they tagged and named Large Marge, they realized that it was Large Marge a 18' female GW, following the paddle board not a Basking shark.
Seems that Large Marge spent most of the summer of 2012 during the day swimming back and forth in front of Orleans beach in 10 feet of water. I'd say information like that is good to know especially if one has the idea of swimming laps at Orleans Beach. Did a submarine just pass under me?

Same goes around here. I talked with lots of Divers and they have heard/seen tons of stories of GWS offshore of Jax. Well, they tagged Lydia in said area and she actually prowled very very close to the shore of JAX beach. This is important because the area she prowled is heavily surfed because of the wave action in the area.

 

[HalcyonDaze]

FYI, depending on the tag used the positions are of varying accuracy. The pop-up sat tags can be off by miles, the SPOT tags on the fin are highly accurate but require the dorsal to break the surface for a fix, and the acoustic tags have a detection range of 500 meters but require a directional hydrophone or triangulation for a fix.

 

[AfterDark]

FYI, depending on the tag used the positions are of varying accuracy. The pop-up sat tags can be off by miles, the SPOT tags on the fin are highly accurate but require the dorsal to break the surface for a fix, and the acoustic tags have a detection range of 500 meters but require a directional hydrophone or triangulation for a fix.

This shark had both. I'd guess in 10' of water an 18' GW's dorsal fin would break the water once in awhile during the day. If only to eat a seal. It sure was breaking the surface in the pictures I saw of it following the paddle board.

 

[BVickery]

FYI, depending on the tag used the positions are of varying accuracy. The pop-up sat tags can be off by miles, the SPOT tags on the fin are highly accurate but require the dorsal to break the surface for a fix, and the acoustic tags have a detection range of 500 meters but require a directional hydrophone or triangulation for a fix.

From what I am gathering the info is from the SPOT tags on the site.

 

[cdennyb]

I should add that I've been an angler and a spearo in my past and would resume the activity for food. My son is a spearo, too. I have no specific objections to fishing... just over fishing. Anyone with any real understanding of our SoCal waters knows that a number of species have been overfished since the population here began skyrocketing after WWII. As early as the early 1900s scientists recognized that some species like giant sea bass were already in trouble and by 1950 our Dept. of Fish & Game had to restrict take of formerly common species such as kelp (calico) bass. Urchins abound in many mainland (and some island) locations in part because their predators (sheephead, lobster, etc) have been harvested to the point of little top no control by them.

Our local dive park has been a defacto marine preserve for 40 years and a legal one since January of this year. A few dives in it followed by a few in adjacent, unprotected waters where commercial fishing boats from the mainland take as many as 100 anglers to fish one reef can quickly illustrate the difference. Also, our urchin populations remain hidden in the rocks there because the populations of sheephead and lobster are quite healthy.

However, the presence of many divers in the park also means that some species like shovelnose guitarfish, angel shark, leopard shark, etc. are rarely seen in the park yet can be found in greater numbers adjacent to the park.

So, are you saying the average "Joe-Scuba Diver and his neighbor Mr. Speargun" are responsible for taking all those fish populations down? Really? It couldn't possibly be the commercial fishing vessels could it with their 50 squar acre nets dragging in everything.
Think about what you just typed, how in the hell is it possible for a few hundred people that can only go out on the weekends or after work for a few hours to take so many fish that the populations dwindle to extinction levels. I suppose you read that from a DFG web site huh. Not trying to piss you off but think about the logic in those words.
I would love to see no bag limits on individuals, if you can pack it you can take it, but for a boat, well, what kind of boat (?), trawler, 30' sportfisher boat with 4 guys and a cooler aboard, or a 100 ton freighter that consumes a million pounds of every fish it drags across?
Also, to address the shock & emotional damage to a 2000# shark dragging a little sport fishing boat around... don't you think that the mating ritual where they bite the crap out of each other and fight like they're grizzley bears is a lot more traumatic than pulling on a line? Or meeting up with a pod of Orca's and finding out you're the only shark around... really people... get a grip. I've been diving for over 30 years all up and downt he coast of Cali and all I've seen dwindling to the point of extinction is our freedoms and rights. Fishing laws that impact the individual are all about the financial machine that the state has at it's disposal to generate income. It's gotten so bad lately that I just don't buy a license any more. Do I fish less, maybe, maybe not. When they stopped scuba divers from harvesting abalone, I gave up on the state and trying to follow the law. It's so complex, I bet half the people who have the book can't figure it out, it's like the tax code.

For the most part, I can see the basic good intnetions, but get the gov't involved and it all goes south.