Great Lakes State Parks legislation ?

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All good questions.

1 Who / What is "GTBUP"?
A. The (proposed Grand Traverse Bay Underwater Preserve) seeking approval to be the 12th bottomlands preserve in the Traverse City -5 County region of NW lower Michigan.

2 What specific reasons have MUPC given for not supporting the legislation?

A.Well, that depends on what letter you read, if you take Larry Sanders letter, he states a number of things that just aren't relevant (from old legislation)and was very defensive in nature. (He was a lawyer, so he has that tone in his letter). The sad thing is.. The State Park has been there since 1899 – so when he said “Poor legislation”, he was damning everybody who supported (bi-partisan)it over the past 111 years. So he didn’t make himself look good or represent the MUPC well at all.

A.Now, if you take the MUPC President's letter R. Bloomfiled – “Very” well written and tactful and asked to be considered in this and future legislation. (and this would seem reasonable). Any objections most likely came from what was supposed to be sent out on a press release as "Re-dedication of a State Park" and not "Proposed State Park". Just one word missing and the walls came down. The MUPC feels it will change the preserves, status and functionality I guess. But the State Park re-dedication is just that, a re-dedication..everything stays the same. They also contend not being notified or consulted...But this idea of recreation and tourism was presented to the in the fall of 2005 in a power point e-mail from me to them.

3 Who would decide who becomes a member of the "committee that will represent you -the diver, the charter boat operator, promoting, marketing and so on."?

A. The Governor will have the ultimate authority - but you can write your Senator and ask to be nominated, then go thru the usual process of approval and then get appointed by the Gov. usually within 6 months. I would encourage you to contact your Senator to be nominated.:crafty:

4 What role does the MUPC have today, working with the DEQ? (I thought the DNR was responsible for the bottom-lands)

A. The role of the MUPC is more of an advisory position and that's only if they are notified of issues that are relevant. However in past years, many feel...and I'm one of them, that th MUPC has become more of a "club house" group of people. They do put out a divers guide and not much mor from what I have observed first hand over 18 months. The MUPC can change to a more aggressive role and help shape the future of underwater tourism in the Great Lakes. But at last count, they were interested in "preservation". The MDNR is responsible for the bottomlands - however the MDNR was never at any meetings (Michigan Underwater Salvage & Preserve Committee) and often looked down upon by other agencies that were at the meeting :mooner: . So the MDEQ & MDHAL took over :rofl3: . Any topic on recreation or tourism, and their mouths would shut and not say a word :no ...because they can't. The topic of “Recreation” dominates those committee meetings and it falls on deaf ears :confused: . The MDEQ received a fine (money) from a shipwreck hunter and that money was supposed to go back to the MUPC but they earmarked it for a lawsuit somewhere else. :huh:

5 Is there a budget for the preserves?
A.I can speak for the GTBUP that we do have a budget. I would say “No” to most of them. However it would be left up to the individual preserve officers to handle their own budget. Some have no money and a few manage accordingly. They are all managed individually by their own elected members of that preserve.

If so, who controls the spending and how can I obtain a copy?

A. For the GTBUP, we have the Grand Traverse Regional Community Foundation (An umbrella 501(c)3 organization) that administers the funds on our recommendation. Myself, the V.P. and the Treasurer. We're waiting for our501(c)3 status from the IRS. Our strategic plan has it all laid out in the “News” section of the website. You are free to request a copy by writing to the Community Foundation. Interesting question on the others… - not sure. They should all be non-profit so I would think that their accounting profile can be made public if requested. I would contact the preserve (representative) you are interested in. Ron Bloomfield is the President and can be reached at bchsrb@mindspring.com

6 Who would control the spending of "voluntary fees" and how would they be distributed equally throughout the state?

A. The Committee would decide how the funds should be spent. No guidelines have been established yet because the committee hasn't formed yet. As far as equally?.. "My opinion" : If no one wants the money, then it would sit in teh ac****. a certain amount would be earmarked for the bottomlands and this would include the preserves that are active. (besides the fact they shot themselves in the foot by not supporting any of the legislation) - The rest of the funds go into an account until it reaches 1 million dollars or more..– then disperse the interest as annual payments ($80,000+) wherever it is needed (we will have become self-sustaining! ;) ) . If no one is active in maintaining the preserve, they shouldn’t get the funds. This will force those who want to do something but can’t because of no money. I think proposals from organizations and individuals, who are interested in using those dollars to help create dive opportunities, promote underwater tourism and so on, would be highly considered. But there are many other reasons, which are outlined in the House bills.Make your voice count and let us/them know where you would like to see the funds dispersed. I do know that any organization requesting funds will have a credit/background check to ensure the money would go to reputable individuals/organizations. Key point.. No federal sanctuaries :no ,.. Only State bottomlands and State preserves.

I hope I answered your questions. :D
G
 
Greg_MacMaster:
But would it be worth it?

The dive industry, by numbers is pretty small compared to beach walkers, swimmers, boaters and so on. I would think having a lobbyist for those as well as scuba divers would be more advantageous. I thnk lobbyist get about 10% of wat is brought in, but paid to them in a round about way.

To make it work, we would need to start a "Trade Association" that encompasses every business & stakeholder that has an interest in maritime recreational resources. Do you think it's time for this to occur?

I guess I would like to know what the potential benefit would be. I would also like to know where the money would come from to pay them.
 
Some have asked why we can't have support in Lanising and that's no small task. While some have worked overtime to generate increasing interest, to do this full time would mean making a move to Lansing, and I'm not willing to uproot my family to do so. Notwithstanding, anyone who would be a lobbyist from the scuba group (a very small population by voter standards) would have to be a lobbyist for many other water based recreational activities to gain momentum and support.

Support from many small businesses would mean joining the SBA, maybe the non profit group. Build and gain support state-wide, then bring in the option of a lobbyist. They don't get paid unless grant money from the organization recieving it, pays the lobbyist (I'm paraphrasing as it's more detailed than that). So the usualy cut is 10%.

I think if we do this right and get more legislators, state reps, senators certified to scuba dive and keep their interest - will have more than one lobbyist and that's what we're trying to do up here... The annual summit affords them a chance to dive a small local wreck and then attend the evening dinner. It's a "common ground" for ideas to start.

The benefit.... becoming a major dive attraction in the future. Intentional sinkings, historical - maritime museum enhancements with help from divers and so on. Too numerous here to mention.
 
Thanks for the reply. I find it amazing that the state establishes the preserves, but provides no funding to the agencies that manage and promote them. We have wrecks on the bottom that the state considers "historically significant" but there is no funding made available to preserve them with moorings rather than have them torn up by anchors.
 
Betail:
Thanks for the reply. I find it amazing that the state establishes the preserves, but provides no funding to the agencies that manage and promote them. We have wrecks on the bottom that the state considers "historically significant" but there is no funding made available to preserve them with moorings rather than have them torn up by anchors.


BINGO! Now can you see why we needed to make some changes? :D The agencies tied thier own hands so as not to support the preserves. It was pretty much a failure from the start. The Straits preserve, Thunder bay overshadowed by the sanctuary and maybe one other... That's about it for a self sustaining preserve. But they're all barley holding on. And yet, the preserves (MUPC) won't support the bills.... "Knife please! I'd like to cut my own throat now".... :shakehead It just doesn't make sense.
 
Regarding this Great Lakes State Park legislation, we will all be well advised to leave personalities out of this and review this proposal on its merits.

Some may disagree, but this "voluntary" donation may be the first step down the road to mandatory fees and even state licensing of scuba divers. While the government and sponsors deny this, it is hard to see what can be gained by this legislation except consulting fees. Michigan is broke. The DNR is broke. Any funding is "voluntary". How can any scheme like this succeed? If the state planned to make actual improvements like providing buoys, rescue services and the like, divers have something to gain. But absolutely none of this is going to happen anytime soon. If anything, a committee or the DNR or both will "study" it. So, in the meantime, we get state involvement, no services or support, the DNR and other state agencies get an unfunded mandate and the door opens to diver regulation. How can this make any sense to the diving community?

If you want to learn more about what is going on and why it is important to divers, check out the testimony before the house of representatives committee on tourism, outdour recreation and natural resources. It held a committee meeting last Tuesday. The written testimony of both the proponents and opponents can be found at:

http://house.michigan.gov/committee...or+recreation+and+natural+resources&submit=Go

There is also an excellent on-going discussion of the issues on Brendon Baillod's shipwreck research discussion board:

http://www.ship-wreck.com/wreckboard/

A list of all the legislators involved in representing preserves or on involved committees is listed under a posting for May 27.

Divers will do well to review and understand the issues involved here and form their own opinions. If you feel strongly one way or the other, contact the legislators involved (and your own if he/she is not on the list) and express your opinion.
 
In response to Sleepdiver:

Regarding this Great Lakes State Park legislation, we will all be well advised to leave personalities out of this and review this proposal on its merits.

(( Merits...Yes..... History of government involvement....no))

Some may disagree, but this "voluntary" donation may be the first step down the road to mandatory fees and even state licensing of scuba divers. While the government and sponsors deny this, it is hard to see what can be gained by this legislation except consulting fees.


(( Just because the Great Lakes State Park has been recognized as such and is being re-dedicated, this means that the bottomlands are the park... not the water column or the surface of the water. So instituting fees for scuba divers would also have to be done for swimmers, boaters, fishing, canoeing, kyaking or any other waterborne recreational sport. In doin this, any legislator would be committing political suicide. Again, I stress that it's for the BOTTOMLANDS of the lakes. So - nothing changes from before....))

Michigan is broke. The DNR is broke. Any funding is "voluntary". How can any scheme like this succeed?

(( Any money coming in is better than no money at all. Plus the $15 fee is only part of the funding "scheme"... It also opens the door for additional funding sources like Land and Water conservation fund and others like that. There's alot of money out there, the %15 is a ,mear sumpliment. If you knew your $15 went towrds buoying wrecks and helping to promote diving, would you donate it? ))

If the state planned to make actual improvements like providing buoys, rescue services and the like, divers have something to gain. But absolutely none of this is going to happen anytime soon. If anything, a committee or the DNR or both will "study" it. So, in the meantime, we get state involvement, no services or support, the DNR and other state agencies get an unfunded mandate and the door opens to diver regulation. How can this make any sense to the diving community?

(( again, there's no regulation...and how do you know it will never happen. I suggest you come to the committee meetings and voice what you say here. You can attend... Posting here won't go very far - but voicing your opinions in front of all the departments and agencies will be noticed..))

If you want to learn more about what is going on and why it is important to divers, check out the testimony before the house of representatives committee on tourism, outdour recreation and natural resources. It held a committee meeting last Tuesday. The written testimony of both the proponents and opponents can be found at:

http://house.michigan.gov/committeei...rces&submit=Go

(( Thank you! ))

There is also an excellent on-going discussion of the issues on Brendon Baillod's shipwreck research discussion board:

http://www.ship-wreck.com/wreckboard/

(( I wouldn't say "excellent... but it does have its merits.))

A list of all the legislators involved in representing preserves or on involved committees is listed under a posting for May 27.

Divers will do well to review and understand the issues involved here and form their own opinions. If you feel strongly one way or the other, contact the legislators involved (and your own if he/she is not on the list) and express your opinion.

(( But make sure it's an INFORMED decision and not one that is taken from someone elses opinion... It will get out of hand just like Brendons site. MAny have no idea on the laws an are taking action verbally -then hear the law and understand, but don't retract their statement.))
 
How exactly is paying $15 for diving in the Great Lakes going to make a "better Michigan"? I live in the U.P. (I know you guys forget we're here most of the time until taxes need to be paid) ... Hmmm... Let's see. More taxes for better roads, yet I STILL have to go 15 mph down my road because the road crew just stuffs some black crap into the holes and counts on the local traffic to tromp it down... Ummm - More taxes for better schools. Our school has had to go to 4 day week because of funding cuts here. Government involved in hunting because the deer herd is declining. Yet I see 5-6 dead on the road every day. And of course operation SABRE!!! Since we are such aggressive drivers who don't wear their seatbelts, the GOVERNMENT sends more officers here in the summer time to protect all you folks who are coming up from down state. NOW you're going to tell me that I'm going to have to pay $15 towards better diving. (Don't you dare insult me by telling me it's volunteer). What a joke. Do you really (and be honest) mean to tell me that we (people not residing below the bridge) are going to see ANY benefit what-so-ever from this change? All we're going to see is more DNR officers checking boats for our diving "green cards" (Are they going to check our logs and cards too?) and the fines piling up for the folks that don't get one. With all the money going down state. Are you going to bouy OUR wrecks? As far as tourism... Who exactly is this going to bring in? Maybe you folks should spend a little more time on this board and listen to the warm water divers call us NUTS for diving here!!! If this is in FACT a tourism issue, then why isn't the entire STATE paying $15 per year to fund this project. Not just the divers. As you stated, this benefits EVERYONE!

You said: "It should have included "Re-dedicating". You see, the State Parks have always been there, since 1899. Nothing has changed but simply recognizing it for what it is...a State Park. And it's not about the Preserves... this is statewide meaning the entire bottomlands." WELL, I currently have a State Park permit so if I use your above comment then I shouldn't have to pay any additional fees since if you are just expanding the park borders then my current permit is acceptable. Or am I wrong?? Do we now have multiple State Park Permits??

Now for me real question.... Who found WHAT? It's a whole lot easier for the State to put claim on a shipwreck if it's found in a State Park.... Hmmmm I think we're all overlooking something here... Just a thought
 
What excellent points. You make a good one about the UP being ignored. We get nothing but taxes and summer tourists. No one seems to know that we live here year round. I also think Greg MacMaster may have solved our concern about paying to dive. If this State Park only applies to the "bottomlands" and not the "water column" above it, then I suppose divers can ignore it. After all, any diver good enough to dive in the Great Lakes should have enough buoyancy control to stay off the "bottomlands" so no diving should occur there. That being the case what we be paying $15 for? Surely not for a resource (bottomlands) that we do not use. We are no different than swimmers who, I hope, stay off the bottomlands as well.
 
Greg_MacMaster:
While we're on the subject.... a question was posed to me on why Michigan doesn't have a lobbyist that can represent the scuba industry.

What are the "pros" & "Cons" to this question?
Lines are open......... anyone?

That is the problem with Government today... the lobbyist gets what they want done, NOT the people!:no
 

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