Great Lakes diving for beginners

[Marie13]

I want to dive torch lake off of Lake MI, has anyone been there? how is it? is it worth driving from TN to dive it?

You should post in the Great Lakes Wrecking Crewn section about that. This thread is all Great Lakes.

 

[fisherdvm]

There are lots of good options in cold water regs. A lot has to do with tuning as well. Typically, most recreational diving in the summer won't be faced with this. In May, absolutely.

I do not think of free flow as a function of the season. It is a function of both depth and temperature. Quarries in Ohio will remain in the 30-40 range through the summer at recreational depth. Many of the wrecks discussed here were mentioned in the 100 tp 120 ft range. It has little to do with tuning, but more with the design of the regulator. Sherwoods are “bullet” proof even for the brut first stage. Environmentally sealed is the other term. To make a blanket statement is dangerous.

 

[fisherdvm]

Recreational depth is Padi defined as 100 ft, and others at 130 ft. Both ranges are known for free flow hazards even in the summer months in the great lakes - except for Erie in the summer.

 

[rhwestfall]

Both ranges are known for free flow hazards even in the summer months in the great lakes - except for Erie in the summer.

 

[fisherdvm]

Erie is shallow... It warms up the quickest! Of course, if you go to 200 ft... that still can be a problem.

• Lake Superior is 1,335 feet deep and 350 miles long. It is the largest of the Great Lakes in both surface area and volume. Lake Superior could contain all the other Great Lakes plus three more lakes the size of Lake Erie. Learn more fun facts about Lake Superior.

• Lake Michigan is 925 feet deep and 307 miles long. It is the third largest Great Lake and the sixth largest freshwater lake in the world.

• Lake Huron is 748 feet deep and 206 miles long. It is the second largest Great Lake and the fifth largest freshwater lake in the world. It has the longest shoreline of the Great Lakes if you count the shorelines of its 30,000 islands.

• Lake Erie is 210 feet deep and 240 miles long. It is the fourth largest of the Great Lakes in surface area and the smallest by volume.

• Lake Ontario is 804 feet deep and 193 miles long. It is the smallest of the Great Lakes in surface area. It lies 325 feet below Lake Erie, at the base of Niagara Falls.

 

[Stoo]

Many of the wrecks discussed here were mentioned in the 100 tp 120 ft range. It has little to do with tuning, but more with the design of the regulator.

As someone who has logged thousands of dives in the Great Lakes and who used to operate a busy dive shop in Tobermory, I respectfully have to disagree with part of what you're saying. Tuning is critical. By reducing the IP a small amount, the risk of freeflow is greatly reduced.

And while I agree that temperatures in the low 40s and even high 30s are likely even during the summer, for recreational divers, the time at depth is usually not great. (Assuming they are diving within NDLs, which by definition, they would be.) That being the case, a freeflow caused by temperature alone, while not impossible, isn't likely. Even if one began, odds are, the regulator would "thaw" as the diver moved up into warm water.

I know Sherwoods used to be bulletproof, and presumably still are.

The other large factor is dewpoint in the breathing air. Shops that cater to divers in cold water areas take "drying" very seriously.

I should add that there was a near fatality (resulting in what appears to be permanent brain damage) in a young woman just a few weeks ago in Tobermory. I know people personally involved with the mishap. It was caused by a regulator freeflow in a virtually brand new Poseidon regulator. The water temperature to 60' or 70' would have been mid 60s. Below that, upper 40s, possibly low 40s depending on currents. The Poseidons are one of a very few regulators widely recognized as bulletproof in cold water, and yet this one freeflowed. I can't imagine the temperature was much of a factor, where perhaps poor tuning was. As it was "out of the box" new (the diver was an AOW student with only a fistful of dives I understand) it's likely the IP was factory spec, which is too high for very cold water. (All of this is my opinion I should be clear. No report has been issued regarding the incident, that I am aware of. The diver had completed several shallower dives the day before without incident, so presumably there was nothing seriously wrong with the regulator.)

I dive Apeks regs and I have TRIED to freeze them up as deep at 170' in 39° water and was unable to. I have the IP dialed back somewhat... enough that work of breathing is "noticeably" more difficult.

It's very unusual to see freezeups in Tobermory in summer. I'm not saying they don't happen, but I can't recall seeing one in a very long time. Springtime on some of the deeper wrecks is a whole other story. I've been alongside charter boats where almost every diver on the boat returned to the surface in a huge blast of bubbles. Again, it's certainly not every boat, and I have no idea what brands of regulators are being used. I suspect that part of the problem is that less experienced/knowledgeable cold water divers do things like hammering their inflators on while inhaling etc. This is always a bad idea.

 

[fisherdvm]

Gilboa quary in Ohio is a great example. A search in accident forum will yield multiple fatalities from free flowing regulators. I personally witnessed a brand new reg free flow from a student in a class I assisted at the 80 ft platform (I can not recall exact depth) doing skills. The owner mandates a dive plan that includes redundant air supply (the instructor had doubles and I believed even a pony). I would never take anything for granted... and would not dive in cold water or deep COOL water without an environmentally sealed first stage.

 

[Stoo]

I would never take anything for granted... and would not dive in cold water or deep COOL water without an environmentally sealed first stage.

And there's nothing at all wrong with that approach. A sealed first stage is lovely, but does nothing to prevent a second stage freezeup... although I know Sherwood has matched cold water second stages. Gold water diving can be managed through a combination of good gear choices, proper tuning and proper techniques. I dive all year round in Tobermory. I had one tiny freeflow lst February, but it was right after getting my reg back from servicing and there was some weird little thing amiss... I forget what, but it was easily sorted.

I read recently on here that NOAA currently only recognizes Poseidens and Apeks regs for use in Antarctica. There may be "non-performance" related issues that eliminated Sherwoods, like parts availability or something. I THINK the Canadian Navy approved Sherwood, along with Apeks and Poseidon, but don't quote me on that!

 

[rhwestfall]

Erie is shallow... It warms up the quickest! Of course, if you go to 200 ft... that still can be a problem.

• Lake Superior is 1,335 feet deep and 350 miles long. It is the largest of the Great Lakes in both surface area and volume. Lake Superior could contain all the other Great Lakes plus three more lakes the size of Lake Erie. Learn more fun facts about Lake Superior.

• Lake Michigan is 925 feet deep and 307 miles long. It is the third largest Great Lake and the sixth largest freshwater lake in the world.

• Lake Huron is 748 feet deep and 206 miles long. It is the second largest Great Lake and the fifth largest freshwater lake in the world. It has the longest shoreline of the Great Lakes if you count the shorelines of its 30,000 islands.

• Lake Erie is 210 feet deep and 240 miles long. It is the fourth largest of the Great Lakes in surface area and the smallest by volume.

• Lake Ontario is 804 feet deep and 193 miles long. It is the smallest of the Great Lakes in surface area. It lies 325 feet below Lake Erie, at the base of Niagara Falls.

All of which can and will have a thermocline.... I've been on Erie for nearly 30 years. The thermocline is usually in the 70-80 foot of depth, and despite 75-77 current record temperatures "up top", it can still be in the 30's under that...

Properly set up and maintained equipment, and proper procedures for diving that environment. That is what lets you dive another day.

 

[rhwestfall]

It has little to do with tuning, but more with the design of the regulator.

For the first 20 years, I dove unsealed ScubaPro Mk-10 pistons in sub-40 degree water with never a single documented issue. Proper tuning and proper procedures..... and maybe some dumb luck. I have seen enough to know that it is more than a stated design superiority....