Grand Cayman dive boat breaks loose from mooring

[newmexicodiver]

I was wondering which of the 2 companies it was since they are the only ones that regularly dive the NE corner. I have over 100 dives with OF and they generally leave no one on board.

 

[lake mtka'er]

Folks - I will apologize right away for being a "newbie" here and in the underwater world, I do not mean to be offensive with these comments or be in any way judgmental - there are several sides to any issue, but we must be mindful that perception is everything.
I do thank everyone for the commentary on this and all the other posts I have browsed to gather information. I have been doing research looking for a dive operator on Grand Cayman and came across this item. It gives me pause as to where and how to spend my dive dollar.

I have never posted here before, but felt compelled to on this item. It also begs another question that has been on my mind - how do you balance the cost of a dive from one operator to another - and the prudence with which they operate. Common sense safety... and fully realizing as a novice, my level of prudence does differ from some of my counterparts on the same boat. Where does one find that type of information ?

Very interesting the comment -
"Ignoring all of the goodness of a topside overwatch in terms of dive safety and looking at it strictly from the perspective of protecting a businesses's capital investments, the question of the value of a topside watcher does have to also consider that there's a big difference between risking the loss of a $40K small sixpack and risking a $300K Pro48."
maybe I missed something in my training in SCUBA or in aviation safety and safety in general... isn't there a human life factor involved here ? what about the insurance rates for the specific operator and the industry in general ? -IF- this operator had lost or had an injury or incident what type of impact would it have had on all the other island operators ? and generally the island itself had it been a tragedy.
If we as a community aren't self regulating / policing ourselves - we will have regulations imposed upon us, usually by an outside source that has very little knowledge of the industry itself.

Now I know this may sound silly, and please do excuse me, but this is where prudence and comfort level come into play... how many of you would ride in an airplane with both pilots wandering around the cabin and chatting it up with the passengers ? I know fully well that the avionics & computers will and usually does fly the airplane very well, and will even land itself and stop on the centerline of the runway - all very safely - with the crew monitoring the operation - but that's my comfort level. It seems to me that someone "qualified" - some one that can handle the boat and operate the radio at a minimum - (imho) needs to stay on board and keep track of the helm.
Just my 2cents worth - food for thought... no finger pointing intended ... I am here to learn, and discuss.

Mike

 

[Papa_Bear]

First I understand, but you are close enough to shore to get back from any dive site on grand Cayman! On small boats or when a few divers are abroad I see no "Good" reason to require a deck hand? Things happen and I would be a little distraught with the operator, and would want it made up to me! But it is very rare and the investment for the company is big! It can happen anywhere, even on your own boat! Just another reason to learn good knots I guess? What ifs are tough! What if a Meteor struck the boat with a deck hand on board? Or struck by another boat? The risk is inherent in the activity! What if the Car that takes you to the boat losses its breaks?

 

[-hh]

...there are several sides to any issue, but we must be mindful that perception is everything....

Well said.

I have never posted here before, but felt compelled to on this item. It also begs another question that has been on my mind - how do you balance the cost of a dive from one operator to another - and the prudence with which they operate. Common sense safety... and fully realizing as a novice, my level of prudence does differ from some of my counterparts on the same boat. Where does one find that type of information ?

Often, its easier said than actually done. In general, internet resources are an example of an opportunity to move beyond the normal marketing hype. The publication of _Undercurrent_ is another resource.

Very interesting the comment -
"Ignoring all of the goodness of a topside overwatch in terms of dive safety and looking at it strictly from the perspective of protecting a businesses's capital investments, the question of the value of a topside watcher does have to also consider that there's a big difference between risking the loss of a $40K small sixpack and risking a $300K Pro48."
maybe I missed something in my training in SCUBA or in aviation safety and safety in general... isn't there a human life factor involved here ? what about...

I believe this was my comment, and my point was to illustrate looking at the basic problem in a fashion that was other than the common mantra of "dive safety." My point was that the purely self-serving business finance angle would appear to me to have been a justification source for 'spending more' to protect the asset (boat) from the risk(s) of loss. Perhaps they normally do, and merely took a chance on this one day ... a staffmember out sick, as a notional example as to perhaps why... and they merely had the 'bad luck' of a parted mooring line on this one rare day that they weren't fully staffed and thus protected from potential loss.

-IF- this operator had lost or had an injury or incident what type of impact would it have had on all the other island operators ? and generally the island itself had it been a tragedy.

A fair enough comment and observation, but to give it a slight change in perspective, what would such a loss have to do with the size (= value) of the lost vessel?

This is why I tried to make my comment separate & distinct from the dive safety issue - - it would appear to be simple common sense for a business to be wiling to 'spend more' (staff labor) to protect a more "expensive" investment - - and if we generalize this perspective into dive safety, it suggests that having more divers onboard would also lead to this same conclusion.

If we as a community aren't self regulating / policing ourselves - we will have regulations imposed upon us, usually by an outside source that has very little knowledge of the industry itself.

YMMV; I'm a cynic of the "Unfettered Capitalism" philosophy, which is what the above seems to sound like. You asked earlier how we (as customers) are expected to be able to judge good operators from bad and part of that answer is in what the local regulations are that apply. There have been places in the Caribbean where you took your chances with having an OOA from a clogged regulator from a rust-laden tank because the local VIP rules were very poorly enforced, if not nonexistant...afterall, holding high standards on tank maintenance costs money.

FWIW, on a similar vein, I encountered a dive operation who chose to stop sending his compressor air samples out for independent air purity testing. The local dive shop standard is to fork over the (pretty big) bucks to do this test quarterly...so imagine my surprise when the one that I saw at this resort was 15 months (5 quarters) old.

Unfortunately, this is something that isn't listed in most Government regulatory standards, nor is it even listed as a voluntary standard in places like the Caymans. And when times gets tough for a dive operation, it is an inobvious way to cut expenses.

First I understand, but you are close enough to shore to get back from any dive site on grand Cayman!

Assuming a suitable shore exit terrain and suitable sea conditions...unfortunately, if consideration of the latter is that the dive location was selected to be in the sheltered lee of the island, this means that the weather is trying to blow you offshore. As such, it might not necessarily be a piece of cake to self-rescue.

On small boats or when a few divers are abroad I see no "Good" reason to require a deck hand? ...But it is very rare and the investment for the company is big! ... Just another reason to learn good knots I guess?

My understanding from the report is that the permanent mooring line parted. As such, it wasn't a question of the quality of the boat handler's knot to tie onto the mooring.

Unfortunately, to have a mooring fail while in use isn't necessarily all that rare of an event - - and its not necessarily just the line, but also the pin connection that was set into the rock (reef), since while this is preferably secured with marine concrete mixed with fresh (not salt) water, this isn't necessarily always the case, nor even if this is done properly can they be expected to last 'forever'.

And utlimately, this comes full circle back to is that there are no regulations that specify how long a mooring pin can be in service before it must be pulled and replaced with all-new hardware, at least in the Caymans. So again, we're trying to judge a destination based on reputations, which also includes whatever 'oops' reports we read on the Internet, and try to steer ourselves towards those places that have fewer mistakes.


-hh

 

[Cave Diver]

I don't so much have a problem with someone deleting his/her own posts but to be able to delete an entire thread is disconcerting.

[hijack]We generally subscribe to the premise that the Original Poster "owns" the thread. By that I mean that we try to help keep it on the course that the OP intended by honoring their requests to delete, close or moderate a thread that deviates from it's intention, within reason. If you have posts that you feel are relevant and would like to start your own discussion, you could make a request to see if they are recoverable. [/hijack]

 

[scubadada]

- how do you balance the cost of a dive from one operator to another - and the prudence with which they operate.

Where does one find that type of information ?

It seems to me that someone "qualified" - some one that can handle the boat and operate the radio at a minimum - (imho) needs to stay on board and keep track of the helm.

... I am here to learn, and discuss.

Mike

Hi Mike,

I would suggest emailing or calling the operator to reliably obtain additional information. I have found this strategy to be very effective and the responsiveness, or lack thereof, of the operator is useful information also.

Two very good operators I've dived with off Grand Cayman that leave someone on the boat are Divetech and Wall to Wall Diving. I also dive with a small operation that does not leave someone on the boat. I'm OK with that, it's a personal decision.

Good diving, Craig

 

[idocsteve]

how many of you would ride in an airplane with both pilots wandering around the cabin and chatting it up with the passengers
Mike

The boat wasn't moving.

If the plane is parked at the gate and both pilots were chatting it up with the passengers I don't think anyone would have a problem with it.

I hate bad analogies.

 

[lake mtka'er]

Folks TY all for the interesting comments ... all great points and a good discussion ... no argument at all. In fact I will be diving with the operator involved ... like it was pointed out ... it was the "static" line that broke and had nothing to do with the practices of the operator. I do understand the -IF- factor ... that's why it was typed like it was .... it was more a devils advocate type statement that a far flung idea .. yes metors fall and lightning does strike ... but I'll take my chances and enjoy life :cool2:

I will stand by my analogy, even if unpopular however for this very point ... it was in commercial service, at sea ... in was not docked.. moored yes, ... we all have our points of reference and aviation just happens to be mine .. .. maybe i should have specified the aircraft be in a holding pattern....

I'LL BE HAVING CORN BEEF AND CABBAGE ON THE ISLAND !