Gout attack after diving

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Obviously you have insufficient understanding of nutrition to be in this conversation. I care about results and "cures", and you sound like the type that is happy dealing with symptoms. I pitty the people that would listen to you.

Totally incorrect. I am the type that deals with and trusts the scientific method - I do that for a living. You are content with myth and medical quackery. I have no problem with that. To each their own.

I DO have a problem when you start promulgating that twaddle as serious advice to people who come here with medical problems. Especially when you advise people to follow your false "profit" Mercola. Amongst his other drivel, he advises against vaccinations and uses thermography for diagnosis. This is dangerous and has no place in the diving medicine forum. Keep that rubbish out of here, it can do no good.
 
Yeah, when you get on the "no vaccinations" thing, I get a bit wrought up, myself . . .
 
Totally incorrect. I am the type that deals with and trusts the scientific method - I do that for a living. You are content with myth and medical quackery. I have no problem with that. To each their own.

I DO have a problem when you start promulgating that twaddle as serious advice to people who come here with medical problems. Especially when you advise people to follow your false "profit" Mercola. Amongst his other drivel, he advises against vaccinations and uses thermography for diagnosis. This is dangerous and has no place in the diving medicine forum. Keep that rubbish out of here, it can do no good.
Each of us uses research and experiences to decide on what paths are the smartest paths to be choosing.
I don't know anything about you, so it is hard to guess if you have ever had any personal experience with the nutritional issues you are so certain of.... I have a great deal of direct experience, in trying both the path you are pushing, and the Mercola path...I found spectacular results with the Mercola solutions ( poor results with typical symtom based medicine) and every single athlete or diver that I ever pushed in a Mercola direction for a problem, had the same excellent results.
In any event, if each of Mercola's ideas have proven to be superior for me, and all those I associate with...superior to the twaddle that you are pushing, then GOOD SCIENCE would be my trying a new Mercola idea, each time a new one sounds promising--instead of the main stream, pharmaceutically driven ( trillion dollar industry driven) drug based solutions that actually weaken people, and create addicts..... The more antibiotics you feed them, the more they will get sick and need more....the more drugs you get them to take, with 30 or so side effects, the more additional symptoms can be treated, and additional drugs prescribed for.... Why cure an adult diabetic, when you can treat them for life, and gain all the additional revenue from complications later in life? That is the mainstream medical "path"... The Mercola path would be to try and cure the adult diabetic with diet, before they become a full blown diabetic, and can have the insulin resistance and Hyperinsulinemia reversed.
I have seen this myself, so I know it can be done. You can throw any tantrum you want about this, but your ideas stem from an industry that cares more about making money, than about curing people ( the pharmaceutical world, and the MD's that are primarily pill pushers).
 
*Lurk mode off*

As been stated already decrease your meat intake and stay hydrated is your best bet. Kidney function plays a big role in gout. Infections, trauma and starvation can trigger gout.

Any NSAID will help with attacks. If any contraindications towards NSAID first choice would be cortisone as a short treatment unless you go funky with Colchichine (sp?) or TNFalfa.

Allopurinol is commonly used in Europe to prevent gout attacks by lowering urate levels. However do not use while having an active gout since it will make it worse.
 
..But your ideas stem from an industry that cares more about making money, than about curing people ( the pharmaceutical world, and the MD's that are primarily pill pushers).

Actually it is Mercola who is the one who profits greatly from his junk science.


It is so easy to argue with a "believer". You have no facts, only "claims". (Curing diabetes as an example).

Here are just some of the snake-oils that the FDA has ordered Mercola and his Optimal Wellness Center to stop making illegal claims for products sold through his Web site.


1. Living Fuel Rx, claimed to offer an "exceptional countermeasure" against cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, etc.
2. Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil, claimed to reduce the risk of heart disease and has beneficial effects against Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and many infectious agents
3. Chlorella, claimed to fight cancer and normalize blood pressure.
4. Vibrant Health Research Chlorella XP, claimed to "help to virtually eliminate your risk of developing cancer in the future."
5. Fresh Shores Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, claimed to reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer, and degenerative diseases.
6. Momentum Health Products Vitamin K2, possibly useful in treating certain kinds of cancer and Alzheimer's disease.
7. Momentum Health Products Cardio Essentials Nattokinase NSK-SD, claimed to be "a much safer and effective option than aspirin and other pharmaceutical agents to treating heart disease.

Best part is that he has made countless millions from these snake-oils and elixirs. And you dare to suggest that I who have no financial interest in pharma or medicine am the biased party?

Your claims are not only outlandish and foolish but are dangerous too. That is my issue. Your posts are much better suited for the Pub than this forum. When people post here here, they are seeking legitimate medical help not spurious advice from amateur magicians decrying the medical establishment. This is not the soapbox forum.
 
Actually it is Mercola who is the one who profits greatly from his junk science.


It is so easy to argue with a "believer". You have no facts, only "claims". (Curing diabetes as an example).

Here are just some of the snake-oils that the FDA has ordered Mercola and his Optimal Wellness Center to stop making illegal claims for products sold through his Web site.


1. Living Fuel Rx, claimed to offer an "exceptional countermeasure" against cancer, cardiovascular disease, diabetes, autoimmune diseases, etc.
2. Tropical Traditions Virgin Coconut Oil, claimed to reduce the risk of heart disease and has beneficial effects against Crohn's disease, irritable bowel syndrome, and many infectious agents
3. Chlorella, claimed to fight cancer and normalize blood pressure.
4. Vibrant Health Research Chlorella XP, claimed to "help to virtually eliminate your risk of developing cancer in the future."
5. Fresh Shores Extra Virgin Coconut Oil, claimed to reduce the risk of heart disease, cancer, and degenerative diseases.
6. Momentum Health Products Vitamin K2, possibly useful in treating certain kinds of cancer and Alzheimer's disease.
7. Momentum Health Products Cardio Essentials Nattokinase NSK-SD, claimed to be "a much safer and effective option than aspirin and other pharmaceutical agents to treating heart disease.

Best part is that he has made countless millions from these snake-oils and elixirs. And you dare to suggest that I who have no financial interest in pharma or medicine am the biased party?

Your claims are not only outlandish and foolish but are dangerous too. That is my issue. Your posts are much better suited for the Pub than this forum. When people post here here, they are seeking legitimate medical help not spurious advice from amateur magicians decrying the medical establishment. This is not the soapbox forum.

Considering that you sound like a PR guy for big Pharma, or the FDA, your arguements will never be resolved with mine.

You made a post earlier about my comments about my speed on the bike, or in the water, etc., as bragging....
What this was, an attempt to get the playground more even, is sometimes required..the "put up or shut up" issue of "real life".
So many SB members post anonymously and could be absolutely incapable of doing any of the things they claim ( you yourself included, unless you would like to put your "real self" out for scrutiny)...On the other hand, I am happy to dive with anyone on SB, and showcase my ideas in real life...not just the useless postulations of Internet Heroes.
Maybe you have some massively impressive Medical Research background, but if you do, it is not discernable from your posts so far to me. Your physical abilities, which relate to your lifetime nutritional ideas, are relevant as well.

As of now, I don't see much point in further discussion.
 
Dan, the plural of anecdote is not data . . . You know I like you personally, and I'm really glad you have found some things that seem to work for you. I'm not even going to argue that dietary changes prior to full-blown diabetes might not prevent the development of the disease, since we know it is heavily correlated with obesity, and that drug requirements can be dropped by even modest weight loss. But I will not accept that anybody has a panacea for diabetes, cancer or any of the other illnesses listed -- not until large trials support it. And do you not think that insurance companies would be interested in sponsoring such trials? Imagine the improvement in profits if they could eradicate all these chronic illnesses . . . Maybe some of Mercola's ideas work for some people. Maybe they work for you. But to suggest that someone forego traditional treatment in favor of his approach in the absence of good, properly executed scientific study is just plain irresponsible.
 
Oh, but I do find it exhilarating when a thread pursues the best medical approximation of the truth through cold logic, the scientific method, and evidenced-based research published in refereed journals. And when the discourse is dispassionate, focused, orderly and respectful, it's a thing of beauty.

Regards,

DocVikingo
 
Dan, the plural of anecdote is not data . . . You know I like you personally, and I'm really glad you have found some things that seem to work for you. I'm not even going to argue that dietary changes prior to full-blown diabetes might not prevent the development of the disease, since we know it is heavily correlated with obesity, and that drug requirements can be dropped by even modest weight loss. But I will not accept that anybody has a panacea for diabetes, cancer or any of the other illnesses listed -- not until large trials support it. And do you not think that insurance companies would be interested in sponsoring such trials? Imagine the improvement in profits if they could eradicate all these chronic illnesses . . . Maybe some of Mercola's ideas work for some people. Maybe they work for you. But to suggest that someone forego traditional treatment in favor of his approach in the absence of good, properly executed scientific study is just plain irresponsible.

Hi Lynne,
Please don't take this as me arguing with you....I just want to re-phrase a little.... One aspect of good science is "Observation"....If you see something again and again, I think it warrants the forming of some thoughts about it....

A great deal of the Mercola bashing is from people that only got some of the surface talk, that appears very opposite the way most MD's view the world. If you read a lot of Mercola, the overwhelming message is that we have too much sugar in our diet, and he goes to great lengths to connect high blood sugar to chronic inflammation, and a range of diseases that typically have chronic inflammation as a precursor.

He is pushing the Advanced Glycation End Products aspect of how sugar directly causes the inflammations responsible both for muscle and arthritic issues, as well as for the lining in blood vessels. There is a great deal published on this, but as powerful as it seems, and as strong as the evidence would appear to be about the harmfulness of sugar, little is presented in our TV Medias to scare or shock the American population into changing it's eating behaviors.

This is just one major area of around a dozen I have found ways to "experience".....For this one, you can take a kid, an adult, or an older person that still works out.... Put this person through a more intense version of the workout they usually do ( each needs to do some form of workout, regularly, so as not to introduce a different form of soreness). After this workout, feed them massive, binge levels of sugar, whether in deserts, or with a 32 ounce serving of high sugar Gatorade, plus a high carb meal.....A typical result, will be sore muscles hours later, or the next day.....try this exact workout a week later, with just light carbs and electrolytes during the workout, and then a no carb, or very low carb meal after and for the entire rest of the day--low or no carb ( high protein and some fat).... Presto, no soreness, not the same day, not the next day....
There is a limit to how ridiculous you can make this intense version of the workout.... I am talking about what would result from a good interval day for a cyclist, or for a Track or Football team, if the coach decides to hit them with a tough workout day... There is a good sized range of workouts where all you need is to add a bunch of high glycemic response foods or drinks, and the A.G.E. reactions occur, inflammation becomes uncomfortable, and training the next 2 days can be compromised by this.
In actual practice, the athlete would want some complex carbs also....but to illustrate this AGE issue and the customary carb loading nature of our cultural response to a hard workout....this is what I have shared with many athletes, and each time, they see the same thing I do.

This would be an instance where the science should be looked into, but you have BIG SUGAR following in the footsteps of Big Tobacco in how Sugar can be advertised to the masses as NATURAL and healthy. Big money drives this. The legal system assists with various protections. We can see the results for ourselves, without waiting 2 more decades for Big Sugar to go the way of cigarettes.

Related to this ..for athletes... You will find research that indicates that athletes with many years of training, are actually very susceptible to insulin resistance, due to the very high levels of insulin that is produced during intense anaerobic threshold or interval type training.....and being an athlete for 10 year, or 20 years, or 30 and more may well SUGGEST that some extreme care needs to be taken to avoid problems with insulin sensitivty, or hyperinsulinemia, or a form of adult onset diabetes. See http://diabetes.diabetesjournals.org/content/51/suppl_1/S271.full as an article that relates this high level training to insulin, in both diabetic athletes and non-diabetic athletes.

As I have been a competitive athlete since the 70's ( graduated highschool in 74....Football, Track, Ski Racing...College was mostly Kick Boxing and Weightlifting and Running....Then Cycling from the 80's on at a Cat 3 level) , I think I have had issues with blood sugar and insulin resistance over the last 10 years...most diets failed to help, and an extreme 6 meal per day body-builder diet, with a cup of rice included in half of the meals along with the 30 grams of protein, actually raised my body fat level, rather than decreased it as it does for most bodybuilders.
Mercola's ideas on blood sugar led me to experiment with a very low carb diet in the last 2 months, along with Vanadyl Sulfate ( as an insulin Mimic to remove sugar from blood, to remove the signal for insulin to be produced)....This has had dramatic effects on energy levels, and for the first time in 10 years, body fat levels are dropping nicely. As my cycling workouts have maintained a high VO2 max for me, losing 20 pounds of body fat will have a holy grail effect on my speed....However, even carrying the excess, I could still manage a 40k time trial in under an hour, even at the higher body fat I had over the last few years ( maybe 20%)... I want it at 10 % or lower, and that is where I am headed on the next few months :)
No bread..no pasta. No simple carbs, ever. No alcohol. 1 to 2 gallons of water per day, and Chia seeds as one or 2 meals per day, out of 3 to 4 small meals...all meals very low or no carbs, all with protein at 25 to 30 grams, except the chia meals which are lower.
Salad once per day, plenty of steamed spinach as a vegetable...very small baked potato at dinner only. This is working.
 
https://www.shearwater.com/products/swift/

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