Diver Dennis
Contributor
Hi Mike! We have been doing stuff here every day and I haven't had much time on the computer but here are 3 TTL shots I took in Tulamben...
Got TTL?
- Thread starter f3nikon
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pakman
Contributor
Time to start another thread of your own Dennis... 
god you're awful with that TTL crutch... :joke:
god you're awful with that TTL crutch... :joke:
i love that last crab shot....
Diver Dennis
Contributor
Thanks Mike V. I took that during your photo course there. Another terrific course by the way, from the diving to all the terrific instruction and fantastic resort, we had a terrific time and I learned a lot...again. We will be at the one in the Philippines in June.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
Thanks Pak. I'm going to have a couple of months of editing once I get back from this marathon...
Greetings Cow Pokes! I was just giving you enough rope in which to hang yourselves! 
"Why don't you post yours, or are you just a know it all that never shoots digital underwater at all? Why not post over at digitaldiver.net of wetpixel.com where the serious photographers hang out, or have they already banned you?"
"Yea.. what Bandit Said! Seems to be a pattern with you f3
I would like to see your work and learn from it.. I too shoot manual a lot, but there is DEFINITELY a place for other methods and TTL."
"hehehe... this should be good... "
"The OP seems to have quite a vendetta against TTL. I'm in Bali and have been shooting both for macro and manual for WA. I would like to see some examples as Bandit pointed out."
"I'll join you..."
"F3nikon, do you have any recent u/w photos that you'd like to share with us?"
"I'm eagerly waiting, too. I searched F3's postings for the last six months and didn't find any images."
Just checking back for a few examples but none yet I see.
"Anyway, my opinion is mixed. I have been using TTL and trying without for macro and both seem to give good results if you have your strobes positioned properly. So do you need TTL to get good shots? No, but it doesn't hurt if you don't have the time to fool around with manual."
Let’s see here… you’ve seen some of my images and you figured out that I used film. Not just any film, but SLIDE film, Velvia ISO 50 to be exact. As most EXPERIENCED Photographers know, slide film has much less exposure latitude than print film, meaning that your lighting has to be near perfect to get the correct exposure, so bracketing is the name of the game.
To top it off film does NOT give you the almost instant exposure FEEDBACK of the Digital LCD, I really do not know if the exposures are correct until I develop the film!
So would it be safe to say that the level of difficultly in using film is much greater that using digital? You bet and should that make you happy? NOOOOOOO… now you’re grasping for straws by asking to see some UNDERWATER images from me from a DIGITAL Camera!
And what can this prove? Nothing! The RULES on exposure with film still applies with digital! And as I stated good film images are much more difficult to produce!
Also about being banned from a “narrow-minded” “can we sell you an over priced strobe” forum…was my ban because I made a comment that was technically incorrect or inaccurate? NOOOOO, I was “banned” for calling the narrow-minded poster…narrow-minded, look it up!
For course you pokes failed to mention the thread on the same narrow-minded forum, of my successfully proving that a Nikon 60mm macro will yield a better image quality than an 105mm macro with FACTS to back them up. And the difference between the two, not to say that one is better than the other. Even though the narrow-minded, “digital pioneered everything about Photography” Gang tried vain to shoot it down, look this up as well.
The bottom line...why should I produce UNDERWATER DIGITAL images when every Digital TTL test shot pictures FAILED on LAND! Or has the water have something to do about making TTL work as you think it should? Maybe it works in saltwater and not in freshwater? Should I also test only on a full moon during a leap year? If the so called "serious photographers" are all in that narrow minded forum, then what are you doing here?
And the MACRO only pictures does not prove that Digital TTL works on land or underwater it only proves that you have been diving in Indo-Pacific waters!
Each one of them were shoot at about the same distances and you most likely had a fixed aperture opening… so how do you know that your strobe was in fact adjusting the power output as it does with TRUE TTL???
Because I do not see the same image shot at varying aperture openings or distances and the exposure staying exactly the same throughout the TTL range as it does with true TTL.
You may have been shooting in MANUAL mode and did not even know it!
http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6199&hl=
"Why don't you post yours, or are you just a know it all that never shoots digital underwater at all? Why not post over at digitaldiver.net of wetpixel.com where the serious photographers hang out, or have they already banned you?"
"Yea.. what Bandit Said! Seems to be a pattern with you f3
I would like to see your work and learn from it.. I too shoot manual a lot, but there is DEFINITELY a place for other methods and TTL."
"hehehe... this should be good... "
"The OP seems to have quite a vendetta against TTL. I'm in Bali and have been shooting both for macro and manual for WA. I would like to see some examples as Bandit pointed out."
"I'll join you..."
"F3nikon, do you have any recent u/w photos that you'd like to share with us?"
"I'm eagerly waiting, too. I searched F3's postings for the last six months and didn't find any images."
Just checking back for a few examples but none yet I see.
"Anyway, my opinion is mixed. I have been using TTL and trying without for macro and both seem to give good results if you have your strobes positioned properly. So do you need TTL to get good shots? No, but it doesn't hurt if you don't have the time to fool around with manual."
Let’s see here… you’ve seen some of my images and you figured out that I used film. Not just any film, but SLIDE film, Velvia ISO 50 to be exact. As most EXPERIENCED Photographers know, slide film has much less exposure latitude than print film, meaning that your lighting has to be near perfect to get the correct exposure, so bracketing is the name of the game.
To top it off film does NOT give you the almost instant exposure FEEDBACK of the Digital LCD, I really do not know if the exposures are correct until I develop the film!
So would it be safe to say that the level of difficultly in using film is much greater that using digital? You bet and should that make you happy? NOOOOOOO… now you’re grasping for straws by asking to see some UNDERWATER images from me from a DIGITAL Camera!
And what can this prove? Nothing! The RULES on exposure with film still applies with digital! And as I stated good film images are much more difficult to produce!
Also about being banned from a “narrow-minded” “can we sell you an over priced strobe” forum…was my ban because I made a comment that was technically incorrect or inaccurate? NOOOOO, I was “banned” for calling the narrow-minded poster…narrow-minded, look it up!
For course you pokes failed to mention the thread on the same narrow-minded forum, of my successfully proving that a Nikon 60mm macro will yield a better image quality than an 105mm macro with FACTS to back them up. And the difference between the two, not to say that one is better than the other. Even though the narrow-minded, “digital pioneered everything about Photography” Gang tried vain to shoot it down, look this up as well.
The bottom line...why should I produce UNDERWATER DIGITAL images when every Digital TTL test shot pictures FAILED on LAND! Or has the water have something to do about making TTL work as you think it should? Maybe it works in saltwater and not in freshwater? Should I also test only on a full moon during a leap year? If the so called "serious photographers" are all in that narrow minded forum, then what are you doing here?
And the MACRO only pictures does not prove that Digital TTL works on land or underwater it only proves that you have been diving in Indo-Pacific waters!
Each one of them were shoot at about the same distances and you most likely had a fixed aperture opening… so how do you know that your strobe was in fact adjusting the power output as it does with TRUE TTL???
Because I do not see the same image shot at varying aperture openings or distances and the exposure staying exactly the same throughout the TTL range as it does with true TTL.
You may have been shooting in MANUAL mode and did not even know it!
http://wetpixel.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=6199&hl=
i guess that must have been dd... we don't ban on wp... and i don't remember that thread....
i wouldn't call shooting on film harder than digital no, its not really all that different, as you said the rules still apply about exposure. (i have about 3000 dives with my nikonos and slide film, never used ttl actually.. just bracket bracket bracket...)
but as a teaching and learning tool it is miles ahead of film yes... and you can't argue with the benefit of those extra frames.... and of course i no longer worry about bad chemicals or something wacky goin on that i won't notice till i develop it...and i certainly don't miss the smell of colour B
and yes bracket bracket bracket is the name of the game on film..... and on digital...
but i sure miss the latitude of film for my sunbursts.... sigh... i have to upgrade from my D70.. it sux in that department
i wouldn't call shooting on film harder than digital no, its not really all that different, as you said the rules still apply about exposure. (i have about 3000 dives with my nikonos and slide film, never used ttl actually.. just bracket bracket bracket...)
but as a teaching and learning tool it is miles ahead of film yes... and you can't argue with the benefit of those extra frames.... and of course i no longer worry about bad chemicals or something wacky goin on that i won't notice till i develop it...and i certainly don't miss the smell of colour B
and yes bracket bracket bracket is the name of the game on film..... and on digital...
but i sure miss the latitude of film for my sunbursts.... sigh... i have to upgrade from my D70.. it sux in that department
Mike Veitch:i guess that must have been dd... we don't ban on wp... and i don't remember that thread....
i wouldn't call shooting on film harder than digital no, its not really all that different, as you said the rules still apply about exposure. (i have about 3000 dives with my nikonos and slide film, never used ttl actually.. just bracket bracket bracket...)
but as a teaching and learning tool it is miles ahead of film yes... and you can't argue with the benefit of those extra frames.... and of course i no longer worry about bad chemicals or something wacky goin on that i won't notice till i develop it...and i certainly don't miss the smell of colour B
and yes bracket bracket bracket is the name of the game on film..... and on digital...
but i sure miss the latitude of film for my sunbursts.... sigh... i have to upgrade from my D70.. it sux in that department
Time for a D200 or... D2X????
Mike Veitch:i guess that must have been dd... we don't ban on wp... and i don't remember that thread....
i wouldn't call shooting on film harder than digital no, its not really all that different, as you said the rules still apply about exposure. (i have about 3000 dives with my nikonos and slide film, never used ttl actually.. just bracket bracket bracket...)
but as a teaching and learning tool it is miles ahead of film yes... and you can't argue with the benefit of those extra frames.... and of course i no longer worry about bad chemicals or something wacky goin on that i won't notice till i develop it...and i certainly don't miss the smell of colour B
and yes bracket bracket bracket is the name of the game on film..... and on digital...
but i sure miss the latitude of film for my sunbursts.... sigh... i have to upgrade from my D70.. it sux in that department
Thats correct, WP is a class act. The subject was not about Film Vs Digital it was more like will digital TTL work as discuss in WP, a great thread.
Actually one can learn very fast with film as well, when the price of the film and development starts to do a number on your pocket book...you start learning really fast!
"and yes bracket bracket bracket is the name of the game on film..... and on digital..."
except when bandit is shooting, he gets perfect shots each a everytime with TTL. He said he does NOT need to bracket at all.
Diver Dennis
Contributor
I don't think that anyone has been saying TTL is the only way to go but you seem to have a real hate on for it. If you don't like TTL, don't use it.
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