Good Buddies Gone Bad

[RonFrank]

It sounds as if the Op have their stuff together and diving couple #2 does not. I've dove with folks that were very experienced right up to the time they had to deal with low vis, current, cold, whatever. Then they fell apart and did not know how to behave. In fact there is nothing to be sorry for, different/new conditions change things. We all learn.

I am betting the OPs team is ahead of their friends, but that is the nature of diving. I'm guessing couple #2 does not want to talk about their mistakes as it is easier not to. Maybe they are embarrassed about their mistakes, which is a good thing. Do they appear to learn from their mistakes? Do you learn from yours?

If they are OW only they will be unable to dive the deep FL wrecks. Not sure where you have been with these folks, but they could not go OOA very deep and live to tell about. I would not worry about them much unless they are constant screw ups. Talking about this with them is up to you. But avoid the holier than thou approach.

I guess it depends on if you want to maintain the friendship. I am not sure its worth ending a friendship over.

 

[scubajim 1]

If you want to continue diving with this couple there are a few things you could try.

First: model great dive skills and when you are making your dive plan have a specific goal for the dive, make sure you mention looking at your gauges frequently, set a low pressure point or time limit to begin your ascent, how you will do your safety stop and what to do in buddy seperation. Be very detailed about this...it will help.

Second: (I always do this both for myself and my students or buddies) after the dive discuss "what would I have done differently" "how could I have improved the dive, what worked well and what didn't" this develops critical thinking skills about the dive and allows them to do a self-assessment. If they come to see thier own areas of defeciency they will tend to try to correct them more easily then if you or someone else brings it up.

Third: If a behavior really bothers you you can ask them: "why did you....?" examples: "I notice you tend not to do a safety stop, what is your thinking behind that?" or " I saw you make a really rapid ascent, what caused that and how could it be prevented?"

IMHO if steps like these don't help just be "busy" when they want to dive. Good luck :cool2:

 

[farsidefan1]

The OP said they didn't want to discuss their "mistakes". Helpfull suggestions have been tried and rejected already. Why think they will change this time around? If and when something goes terribly wrong if you are with them you will be involved. It will be very unpleasant. You will feel massive guilt. Think about it. Still want to continue diving with them? You decide if it's worth it and live with whatever you decide but don't expect them to behave differently in the future than they have in the past.

 

[Blue Sparkle]

I agree with the concept of letting them know what's going on vs. just saying you are "busy" or otherwise making indirect excuses.

One option that comes to mind, if you don't want to say something as direct as "We don't feel you are safe divers," but yet you do still want to tell them where things stand, is to just let them know that you are feeling uncomfortable diving with them because your styles are very different. In other words, it's not a fit. They may agree or just accept it. If they want to know why or discuss it, then you have the option of going into more detail, with them having requested it.

 

[vladimir]

I'm a little bit wary of a "Master Diver" who seems keen to judge other divers' skills--especially one who is "now a Master Diver." Now and perhaps just recently? It reminds me of a thread we had a while ago by a newly minted Rescue Diver who "rescued" a guy in the deep end of a pool by ditching his weightbelt for him. Sometimes it's hard to restrain our enthusiasm.

If I were the OP, I'd first take a hard look at my motivation. Hopefully it is sincere concern for his friends' safety and the enjoyment of their dives together, rather than an attempt to assert his Master-y.

If your motives pass muster, talk to them face-to-face. It's kind of weak to direct him to a forum where you've already begun talking about them behind their backs.

 

[aquaregia]

I'll do a 30' shore dive at a familiar site with almost anyone, even someone that I know is a liability, because I'm pretty confident that I can handle minor issues. This confidence has come from diving with divers who I discovered the hard way that they were liability, and my experience handling the issues. I treat these dives as "solo + danger". I'm more selective about who I choose to dive with if navigation, depth or boats are involved, otherwise I quickly pass my risk tolerance. One of my favorite dives is to about 90' at Monastery beach, so heavy surf, infinite depth and no shore support are possibilities. I don't instabuddy that one.

 

[MXGratefulDiver]

If your wife is your buddy and the couple are each others buddy, how are you affected. Unless this is team diving as is typical in DIR I fail to see a major problem. Two divers trying to be buddy's is hard enough, four, unless operating as a team is a cluster you know what.

First off, DIR divers don't dive in teams of four ... they dive in teams of two or three. Four people means there will be two teams. So let's not dilute the conversation with that particular tangent.

Secondly, I take it you've never been on a boat or with a diving group when someone in the group has had an accident ... it affects everyone. If it's someone you're personally involved with ... even on a casual friendship level ... it affects you profoundly. If it's someone you don't even know and you're involved in the rescue effort, it affects you profoundly ... even to the point where I've seen some people seriously consider giving up diving.

We don't live in a bubble ... everyone we dive with ... everyone we associate as part of our own particular diving community ... impacts us as divers. That's why the dive community seems to always close ranks around their own in a time of crisis.

Like it or not, you are affected ... and it's simple human nature when someone you care about has an accident to ask yourself what you could've done to prevent it. That's the question I see the OP asking here ...

... Bob (Grateful Diver)

 

[Zieg]

I've run into this problem before. When I lived in Mississippi, I had a hard time finding someone in the area to dive with. I stated diving with a person who was as avid a diver as I, he was ready to go at any second. But we had two different diving styles. His was taking off and assuming that I was going to follow just like his wife did. He would never look back. And that was just one of the problems. I told him things had to change or we were not going to be diving together anymore. So he and I sat down and discussed what WE needed to do to continue diving together. It was a little rocky at first but we turned into a great team. I mean it even got to the point where we knew what the other was thinking. Actually that part was kinda scary. Anyway, even tho the guy was a total loony, I've never had a better dive buddy, that is until I got married, and my wife looks a hella lot better in a wetsuit than this guy.

My point, I would sit this couple down and discuss how your mutual diving together can improve. i wouldn't dump all the blame in their laps, but again, how you both may get more enjoyment out of you diving.

I agree with Netdoc, "I often see people complain about bad divers when in fact they are only diving differently." My old buddy and I did alot of things differently. We would overhear alot of people talk, never to our faces, that they thought we were nuts. Ok, so they were right. Two burly guys with beards can be intimidating. I would also hear others talking how they never saw a better team before in their lives.

 

[captain]

First off, DIR divers don't dive in teams of four ... they dive in teams of two or three. Four people means there will be two teams. So let's not dilute the conversation with that particular tangent.
... Bob (Grateful Diver)

Whatever, it just reinforces my opinion that four can not be considered buddies.
And as for everyone being affected by an accident that happens whether or not the parties personally know each other or not. That happens in any accident you are involved in not just diving.

 

[snowdog]

I understand we all “dive differently”, these differences can be related to physical, experience, and knowledge factors.
What prompted me starting this thread was, my Wife and I had discussed our dismay with the other couple and our frustration with their diving, and yes we did take the “dive differently” into consideration.
Here are a few stories they laugh about, they don’t care to figure out what could have caused the issue:
1. On one dive (we weren’t with them), the group they were with started to submerge, the wife couldn’t submerge, and the husband assumed she was behind him. It wasn’t till about 25 minutes into the dive did he realize she wasn’t there. He was just swimming along with the group, and thought she was. He didn’t alert the DM she was missing.
2. During assent and safety stops she can’t control her buoyancy, (she’s not ascending to fast, it just a non-stop assent to the surface), someone (usually the Dive Master) has to hold her down. (and before you ask…she is actually over weighted (FYI 36lbs)), after watching this time and time again, I noticed she wasn’t exhaling to control her assent and control her buoyancy, in fact once she reaches 20 feet or so she doesn’t exhale at all, unless someone is holding her down. 9 times out of 10 during the safety stop her husband is 15 to 20 yards away. During the last set of dives the Dive Master was dealing with another diver and I had to be her “Safety Stop Anchor” while her husband just swam around. I suggested my observation (about her not exhaling) to her husband, and he told me not to say anything to her. During the next dive it happened again, and I shared my observation. Her response… “No one every told me”.
One of the great things about ScubaBoard is the forum threads, as I read them there are Positive and Constructive postings, to sometimes . . . something less than positive. This thread is no exception. In general, most people that post to the forums are generally interested in sharing knowledge, and giving back to the sport they love.
I have read or heard somewhere “Good Divers Continue to learn” and this site is a great source of information. I didn’t want to go into too much details about the other couple, but neither one of them are interested in Scubaboard, or what they could learn from it. As my Wife and I continued to get additional instruction from “AOW” to “Rescue” as well as general discussions with other divers, the other couples response to all of our additional training, was “Why were we doing it? We already have our OW cert”