Goliath groupers

[Oceana Diver]

I heard that for the ERP to go through, the sugar industry was grandfathered out. The Mississippi basin covers probably half the country, with lots of agriculture, power generation, and other key industries within. How you get all those people and industries behind a plan is beyond me.

 

[FredT]

Most of the MS river nutrient issues can be handled by the development of a healthy delta marsh again and localized marshes upriver near point sources. The MS delta used to be several times the area of the 'glades. When you add inthe possilbe filtering of a large marsh and swamp in the basin upriver of Morgan City the LA based MS watershed marsh can be larger than most NE states! Nutrient absorption can easily be measured in tons per day per acre with a good mix of fresh water plants upstream of a tidal salt marsh. The plant mix is somewhat critical but a healthy marsh with decent water residence time goes a long way towards nutrient mitigation, as will pumping sterile treated sweage uphill from coastal urban areas to re-use the water for irrigation and nutrient filtering.

FT

 

[rjack321]

I'm not contesting the Everglades' role in filtering nutrients, but consider that the acreage of Glades, mangroves and seagrass are much less than they once were (before we started carving them up), and the nutrients levels they must filter are unnaturally high.

Best as I remember, nitrogen and phosphorus both contribute to algae blooms, and unfortunately, the Everglades Restoration Plan only addresses one of those nutrients. The idea was that by lowering the levels of one nutrient (let's say nitrogen), the occurrence and intensity of algae blooms could be lessened. That might actually work, at least until water not regulated for nitrogen from other sources, like the Mississippi River*, mixes with Everglades water high in phosphorus, and then you still get algae blooms. That was one of the many criticisms I heard about the ERP. Algae blooms aside, factor in that the high-phosphorus water leaving the Everglades flows into Fla Bay and through the Keys (and their corals, which don't respond well to nutrients).

*There are plans for a Louisiana/Miss River Restoration, by the way. And there are efforts focused on a holistic, watershed approach to restoring the Mississippi, the Gulf, the Everglades, and the Caribbean.

The bulk of the headwaters to the Everglades has gobs of phosphorus. All the way back up the big ditch (Kissimmee River). Its not a limiting nutrient in south FL. Heck they mine it down there.

Not that any of these mega restoration plans actually get implemented and work. But excess nitrogen is the bulk of the problem.

 

[CBulla]

The fact that phosphorus is mined should be a pretty straight forward indication that its not readily available for use nor should the 'gobs' show up in the Everglades or anywhere else run off takes it.

As far as K.brevis is concerned, find the source(s) of Nitrogen being introduced in great quantities and you've got your culprit! Perhaps its the tons of fertilizers being introduced to new grass around homes in areas that doesn't have the environmental nutrients to support grass to begin with otherwise it would have been there already!

 

[FredT]

The issues the guys on Spearboard found with phosphorus was mostly related to ph pf the effluent nearshore, and to some extent offshore where large quantities of contaminated process waste water was being dumped. Offshore there is considerably more free nitrogen in the system than in Fla Bay.

BTW lawn fertilizer and pet droppings do fall under the category of "ag chem"!

FT

 

[CBulla]

The issues the guys on Spearboard found with phosphorus was mostly related to ph pf the effluent nearshore, and to some extent offshore where large quantities of contaminated process waste water was being dumped. Offshore there is considerably more free nitrogen in the system than in Fla Bay.

BTW lawn fertilizer and pet droppings do fall under the category of "ag chem"!

FT

Hmm.. good thing my dogs seem to find pooing in the house more efficient than in the lawn. :/

My suspect is that lawn fertilizer is more of a contributor than will be admitted to. For 6 years now we've had a red tide show up that lasts for months. Ironically the same time frame as our 'housing boom' here in SWFL, thus thousands of new lawns. The other irony is it the red tide shows up 2-3 weeks post the first real rains of the summer season, i.e. daily rains happening or one good down pour near the end of spring when we're virtually rain free for months. Rain to run off, to river... down river through the estuary regions and into the near shore environment and light tides of this region and..well.. you get the idea.

The other observation I made over this past summer is it showed up near where the rivers meet the Gulf first, then spread around. The Estero River, the Caloosahatchee River, the Peace and Myakka River and out through Charlotte Harbor and Boca Grande Pass to the Gulf around Gasparilla Island and Cayo Costa... etc....

Honestly, I was living in a state park for the summer so the observation came first hand by being blasted by the bloom 4 or 5 times then noticing the migration of it away from these joining points.

 

[Johnoly]

Poaching is a serious problem. ........... .

Your Joking right? Even beyond how you would hide a 400 pound fish with the curved tail sticking out of the cooler(LMAO!) Just how many people(8?) will it take to lift it into your 19ft bayliner let alone the dock?

There is a black market outlet for these and other spieces at the back door of almost any sea food restrant. wish the FWC could buget some time and money to slow this practice down.

I spearfish, and I don't know of a single "Quality" restaurant that is willing to risk the health of their customers and bankrupting their business on buying "street" fish.

 

[archman]

Your Joking right? Even beyond how you would hide a 400 pound fish with the curved tail sticking out of the cooler(LMAO!) Just how many people(8?) will it take to lift it into your 19ft bayliner let alone the dock?

The 400-pounders aren't the problem, they're a distinct minority.

And it's devilishly easy to poach. Just use a private boat, and avoid motoring up to an inspection station (assuming there even is one in your area).

As for "quality restaurants", most of those don't procure their fish locally, but have them brought down from New England or Alaska. The high prices of the food result from the preparation of the food, or at least that's what the dozen restaurants I've interviewed have told me.

 

[perdidochas]

if you remember last summer tampa bay was inundated w/ red tide and when we went out on the boat all you saw were dead fish floating on the surface, it was very sad....

what's even sadder is so many places that still have grouper on their menu's...exp when the grouper is on the endangeared species list w/ the panda

There are MANY species of grouper. None are on the U.S. endangered species list.

Fish Species Protected Under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) - Office of Protected Resources - NOAA Fisheries

 

[perdidochas]

While you are right that there are no endangered species on the menu, there is plenty of evidence showing that commercial fishing is having a tremendous impact and drastically reducing the populations of *all* grouper and snapper species in the entire Caribbean (including Florida).

I think the only non-endangered species of grouper that is doing well in Florida is the Gag grouper, but you never know what is in your plate as they usually label it as only "grouper". For this reason I am trying to avoid groupers, snappers (and reef fish in general) when I go to restaurants. The present practices of reef fish extraction are not sustainable at all.

Here is a very nice guide for "environmentally friendly" sea food, notice that groupers are on the list to avoid:

Monterey Bay Aquarium: Seafood Watch Program - Online Seafood Watch Guides for Sustainable Seafood Choices

The list above is specifically for the southeastern US, but there is a drop down menu where you can change regions. Here is the general website:

Monterey Bay Aquarium: Seafood Watch Program - A Consumer's Guide to Sustainable Seafood

Luiz

There are no endangered species of Grouper in the U.S.

Here's the link to Endangered marine fish (according to NOAA):
Fish Species Protected Under the Endangered Species Act (ESA) - Office of Protected Resources - NOAA Fisheries