Global warming

[Rick Murchison]

to pretend otherwise is to play ostrich

To think you (we) can stop a natural cycle is worse.
Rick

 

[H2Andy]

but i'm not arguing we can stop a natural cycle

all i'm arguing is that we don't have to make it worse, or accelerate it,
or bring it about without a need to do so, which we certainly have the power to do

in other words: natural warming is going to happen anway. but we can
enhance that warming beyond natural levels through our actions and to our detriment

natural warming = good (not in our control anyway)

artificial warming due to enhanced greenhouse effect = bad (but this we can control)

even 1 or 2 degrees beyond NATURAL warming can be disastrous for us as
a species. i don't think you realize how little it takes for the damage to take place

 

[Kim]

Actually I thought that even the White House has now accepted that we are contributing to global warming with our activities (contributing being the operative word!) The differences that seem to exist now are purely about how to do something about it.

 

[Rick Murchison]

In which case building things in places that are probably undefensible would sound like a rather silly thing to do.

Yep... but it's a timing thing, isn't it? 20,000 years ago (the blink of geologic time's eye) sea level was about 300' lower than it is today - (What? you mean we've been in a state of global warming for 20,000 years???... well, yeah...) and we'd have had condos 30 miles out in what is now the Gulf, and blaming ourselves for the rising sea level. But the condo owners would be making a killing in their lifetime, and when those fell to the sea, the next generation would build on the new, higher beach, and so on.
We build a sea wall and think we've stopped the relentless march of a barrier island toward the shore; I laugh at the thought. We may hold the sea back for a few decades, perhaps even a century, but eventually the sea will grab that island and send it ashore. Measured in geologic time our puny efforts won't even be a blip. Krakatoa put more crap in the air in a day than all mankind's activity for all history. Changed the global climate for more than a decade, too.
Today's human caused global warming adherents were yesterdays human caused next ice age adherents.
Me, I'm collectin' nuts.
Rick

 

[BigJetDriver]

its not just a few, if you take the last 5 or 10 years, the storms are increasing in severity and numbers.

lets just hope it is pure coincidence that this is not connected to the global warming that is occuring which has been linked to amongst other things car exhaust gases.

another question:

how many more storms of this severity is it going to take for america to wake up and make the link to global warming and emission control?

last year my car insurance went up by a considerable amount, when i asked why, i was told it was because of the hurricanes and tornadoes in the US, i said i have never driven my car over there or made a claim resulting from either of these, why should i pay?

the response i got was basically because we have you over a barrel!

Clive, et al,

Actually, there were just about as many storms at this time of the year IN 1933 as there have been this year. In other years in between, the number has been lower.

Science, Clive, science...not speculation. Some things are not true just because Auntie Beeb (BBC) or Der Spiegel say that they are.

 

[BigJetDriver]

hmmm... well... first, let's put things into perspective:

99% of all gas in the atmosphere has nothing to do with the greenhouse
effect or global warming (about 78% nitrogen and 21% oxygen).

that leaves 1% of all atmospheric gases that DO play a part in the greenhouse
effect. and that means that the slightest change to this 1% can have possitively
dissastrous consequences. that 1% of important gases are:

Carbon dioxide
Methane
Nitrous oxide
Ozone
Water vapour
Halocarbons

now, water vapour is the biggest contributor to the NATURAL greenhouse effect.
that is, before human intervention, water vapour was "it."

HOWEVER, CO2 is "the most important of the greenhouse gases as it accounts for the largest proportion of the 'trace gases' and is currently responsible for 60% of the 'enhanced greenhouse effect'."

in other words, greenhouse due to water vapor is natural. greenhouse due to
CO2 is a a man-made phenomena because man-made CO2 is in addition to
naturally occurring CO2. CO2 in the atmosphere has increased 30% since the
Industrial Revolution began (you could argue, i suppose, that this is just
a coincidence).

basically, we don't know exactly what will happen, but we DO KNOW that man-made
CO2 is changing the climate, the weather, and the world.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/climate/evidence/carbon_dioxide.shtml

Actually, methane (or Meethane, as the Brits pronounce it) is a more potent agent for atmosphere warming than CO2. That's methane, as in cow farts...lots of them.

 

[FOUNDATIONER]

If were so damn good at terraforming, how come were not living on Mars?
92.something million miles away is a very large STAR. If global warming
actually exists, it may just be a little tiny bit to blame, don't you think?

 

[dlndavid]

If were so damn good at terraforming, how come were not living on Mars?
92.something million miles away is a very large STAR. If global warming
actually exists, it may just be a little tiny bit to blame, don't you think?

I hear there is global warming on Mars too, go figure.

 

[FOUNDATIONER]

quote: "I hear there is global warming on Mars too, go figure"

Sweet! I wonder if its ready yet...and I wonder if the diving is any good

 

[dlndavid]

The ice caps have to melt, then Arnold has to go there and turn on the air.